71-D Double Talon Head, UDU, Jawline

Post pictures, comments and questions about this category of Ikes (Die clash overlay diagram inside)
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1872Hokie
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71-D Double Talon Head, UDU, Jawline

Post by 1872Hokie » Sat Nov 16, 2013 10:27 am

Picked up a new clashed coin. 1971-D, raw MS condition. My first Double Talon Head:
Image
I'd call it a Grade A.
This Ike is also a UDU.
Image
Image
Maybe a Grade B. If you know it is there, you don't need magnification to confirm.
Finally, there is a Jawline Clash on the reverse. I'd call it Grade C. It is there, but hard to photograph.
Sharp coin. I'm going to add it to my "Off to PCGS when there is Time and Money" pile :)
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Re: 71-D Double Talon Head, UDU, Jawline

Post by 1872Hokie » Sat Nov 16, 2013 10:31 am

Now that I'm looking at my blown-up photos, is it actually a Triple Talon Head?
Image
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Re: 71-D Double Talon Head, UDU, Jawline

Post by SteveP » Sat Nov 16, 2013 11:50 am

Looks triple to me.
I've often seen that if the TH represents a multiclashed pair of dies, then the Hair Lip or Volunteer clashes, if apparent, are also multiple.

The UDU is nice - one of my favorite clashes. I suspect that for coins bearing the UDU clash, the dies have not been "fixed" / abraded yet. A good opportunity to also check for the less commonly mentioned O and Crater clashes on the top of Ikes head, and the "BUS crash" near the base of the neck. I also suspect that the 71S SB 4/21 clashed obverse must have had a magnificent BUS crash due to the abrading work in this area (which actually made the S a tiny bit smaller).
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Re: 71-D Double Talon Head, UDU, Jawline

Post by 1872Hokie » Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:19 am

I did not notice any Volunteers or Hairlip. I'll take a second look though.
I'll also need to read up on the other clashes and check for them as well. Thanks Steve.
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Re: 71-D Double Talon Head, UDU, Jawline

Post by AndyO » Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:35 am

I've always suspected that volunteers and to a lesser extent hairlines often times do not follow with talon head clashes because of die abrasion prior in the die's life reducing relief height. Clashes are much more prevalent on 71 and 72 Ikes (and Denver primarily, presumably because the Philadelphia Mint could just swap out for new dies since they made them) most likely because of W2 die steel allowing a little more "fex" if you will - obviously on a very small scale, but I guess that's really all it takes. Certainly now knowing that the Mint took non-standard measures with dies to get around die sink would have a part in this as well on those years with that die steel.

It would be interesting to study to see if strong talon head clashes are primarily on heavier abraded dies, and light talon head clashes tended to produce other clash marks. Lot of other factors in there, so it may not be true what so ever.
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Re: 71-D Double Talon Head, UDU, Jawline

Post by 1872Hokie » Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:48 am

While looking for the BUS Crash, I found this...
Image
I guess this image shows i was Double Wrong about there not being any Volunteers.
I really enjoy coins like this that just keep giving :D
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Re: 71-D Double Talon Head, UDU, Jawline

Post by 1872Hokie » Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:20 am

And a feather/wing clash on the bridge of the nose:
Image
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Re: 71-D Double Talon Head, UDU, Jawline

Post by HerbHicks » Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:55 pm

<< Clashes are much more prevalent on 71 and 72 Ikes (and Denver primarily, presumably because the Philadelphia Mint could just swap out for new dies since they made them) most likely because of W2 die steel allowing a little more "fex" if you will - obviously on a very small scale, but I guess that's really all it takes.>>

I am not sure of the exact dates that this happened, but there was another explanation for the lack of Philly clashes.
At some point Philly made modifications to prevent or at least reduce die clashes. This was done before it was adopted at Denver and I think it was the era of 1971 Ike's.

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Re: 71-D Double Talon Head, UDU, Jawline

Post by 1872Hokie » Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:51 pm

Bad news on this coin... Came back as a "No Grade" from PCGS... I'm not seeing how they could have thought it was cleaned, but that was their verdict. May have to resubmit it one day, but it's going back in the box for now...
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Re: 71-D Double Talon Head, UDU, Jawline

Post by SteveP » Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:03 pm

I've had a couple similar lately. Not sure what the grader is seeing, but it is apparent that the grader(s) doing Ikes is more sensitive to whatever they are looking for. PITA.
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