Taking a closer look at the FEV

SteveP
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Taking a closer look at the FEV

Post by SteveP » Mon Feb 24, 2014 3:18 am

I Went through about 100 FEVs today, preparing to catalogue MMP on whatever I have. I was just categorizing doubling families (very roughly about 6 obverse, and 3 reverse), and other markers, like RPMs*, to start.

The mint reported a die life of approx. 100,000 for obverse dies and 120,000 for reverse dies in 1971. The Big Book estimates that 250,00-500,000 FEVs were minted. Clashes were not that common for FEVs, although reverse die cracks were, relative to clashes, more common.

Doing MMP on a hundred FEVs is not going to give an exact number of dies, but will give a "no less than number" - for obverse dies. Extrapolating a documented number of obverse dies (via MMP) to an estimation of the number of reverse dies carries some error - perhaps mitigated by using additional die markers. Perhaps there were fewer reverse dies used than obverse (just going by the die life numbers provided by the mint). It does seem possible that (and this may be a faulty assumption) die marriages were not often separated due to clash repairs, and may have remained intact through end of obverse or reverse die life.

Doing MMP may permit me to sort out a few questions that I now have regarding the "big" DDO/DDR, and with RPM-003. I'll elaborate more later, as I get the MMP work done. (BTW, the FEV RPM-002 and RPM-003 with be eventually be listed 1D1-501 and 1D1-502 in the DIVa catalogue, while 71D RPM-001, 004, 005, 006, and 007 would end up 1D2-501-505, respectively. Makes more sense that FEV RPMs are catalogued in sequence with the FEV prefix 1D1, while the remaining type 2 RPM are listed in sequence with the prefix 1D2. Also, keep in mind that the IDDD RPM section currently erroneously lists the RPM-004 as having a FEV reverse.)

Regardless, the question that I'd like to get input on right now is:
What would you estimate were the number of dies used?
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Re: Taking a closer look at the FEV

Post by HerbHicks » Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:49 am

If anybody comes up with reasonable estimates, I would say bump the number of dies up. It seems like the mint gets short die life when starting up a new or modified design.

The 1972 type III had a mintage of 44.8 million from Aug-Nov 1972. Yet, the mint would not give me any die life information. They said it was too soon.

November 15, 1974 Alan Goldman of the mint wrote that the new higher relief die life was 200,00 strikes
for circulation strikes. - 2,000 coins / 4,000 strikes for proofs.
This would be with the new die steel.
Now I have to reply on my somewhat shaky memory. Roger Burdette send Rob a mint summary for I think April 1974.
The die life then was considerably less than the 200,000 later quoted..

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Re: Taking a closer look at the FEV

Post by SteveP » Thu Feb 27, 2014 7:47 pm

Some early findings:
1) RPM-002 has two die marriages. DMR-1 has what I'm calling DDR family 2 (AR, stars), while DMR-2 has DDR family 1 (LL, C). Based on inspection of 6 RPM-002 coins. More markers and MMP later.
2) something interesting going on with "RPM-003" - I'll report more if it pans out.
3) there appears to be a third FEV RPM. Markers and MMP later.
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Re: Taking a closer look at the FEV

Post by SteveP » Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:25 am

SteveP wrote:Some early findings:
2) something interesting going on with "RPM-003" - I'll report more if it pans out.
Looking at 31 FEV RPM-003 Ikes, I have nailed a couple of good markers on the obverse that tend to allow me to distinguish the 31 into a earlier die state grouping and a later die state grouping. I'm still looking for multiple markers on the reverse - and in this case that is the tougher part vs the obverse. That said, it appears that there may be two die marriages for this one as well, with an older die state reverse paired with the earlier die state obverse, and then a new reverse for the obverse with the older die state markers. I can't call this one though. I still have to look longer/closer.

I haven't started to the MMP work yet, but if they were switching die marriages as much as it initially seems, it will make my project all that much harder. :|
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Re: Taking a closer look at the FEV

Post by HerbHicks » Fri Feb 28, 2014 10:47 am

I have noticed that the FEV islands seem to vary. Perhaps those could be a marker for die or die state.

SteveP
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Re: Taking a closer look at the FEV

Post by SteveP » Fri Feb 28, 2014 11:31 am

Yes - I noticed a different island appearance between the two reverses (the initial reason that I suspected that the reverses were changed), but not enough for me to make a definitive statement. I'll look again. Maybe I'll find something more definitive that will take the two die marriage hypothesis for RPM-003 out of "maybe" territory.

The RPM-002, on the other hand is fairly clear cut that there were two die marriages.
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Re: Taking a closer look at the FEV

Post by shasta7 » Fri Feb 28, 2014 11:32 am

Hi Steve P...

Can you tell us what the NEW markers are on the obv of the FEV we should look for?
Thanks...

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Re: Taking a closer look at the FEV

Post by SteveP » Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:12 am

I will be quite detailed, but give me a bit more time to organize the presentation and get photos taken. Part of presenting markers with be presenting the doubling "families" for the FEV obverse and reverses - they are part of the markers.
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Re: Taking a closer look at the FEV

Post by SteveP » Sat Mar 01, 2014 5:19 pm

1D1-501 (cross RPM-002)
(1D1 is the DIVa catalogue prefix for FEV or 1971D Type 1)
(501 indicates that it is the mint mark variety, and the first in the sequence)

Common markers for the 1D1-501
- D/D RPM with notch in upper left (perhaps even displaying a bit of a double notch)
- MMP
- "nose hair" die scratch
- DDO (from what I am calling FEV DDO family 2)
- split W, upper right of S, lower right of I, lower right of foot of R and of tail of R


Markers for 1D1-501.1 (DMR1)
- small spread DDR (from what I am calling FEV DDR family 2)
- right side of left foot of A&R, stars 13-10

Markers for 1D1-501.2 (DMR2)
- additional vertical die scratch on bridge of nose
- new reverse - different DDR (from what I am calling FEV DDR family 1 - same family that also includes the WDDR-001)
- vertical notching of right side of L&L (1st L more apparent than 2nd), C, star 10&11

(9 coins evaluated)
Attachments
RPM2 nose hair scratch.jpg
"nose hair" die scratch - common marker, regardless of DMR
RPM2 DD RPM.jpg
D/D RPM
RPM2 DMR2  raw 2.jpg
common MMP
RPM2 split W.jpg
Split W - may be variable, depending on die state and stirke
RPM2 S.jpg
S
RPM2 right side of foot of R.jpg
R
RPM2 tail of R.jpg
R
Last edited by SteveP on Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:45 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Taking a closer look at the FEV

Post by SteveP » Sat Mar 01, 2014 5:23 pm

SteveP wrote:1D1-501 (cross RPM-002)
Markers for 1D1-501.1 (DMR1)
- small spread DDR (from what I am calling FEV DDR family 2)
- right side of left foot of A&R, stars 13-10
Attachments
RPM2 DMR1 A.jpg
RPM2 DMR1 R.jpg
RPM2 DMR1 star 12.jpg
Last edited by SteveP on Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Steve Palladino

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