New IDDD discovery Ike DDR

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tko-5

New IDDD discovery Ike DDR

Post by tko-5 » Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:01 pm

Hello all, Steve P sent in some coins to be looked at, one coin turned out to be a New DDR, a must see, so I added a link so everyone can take a look, it is just getting to JR of Anacs for authentication, I must say this is a nice DDR, came to me in a PCGS holder marked with grade only, this coin went from all of 50.00 dollars to my estimated value because of such a high grade and early die stage and die state 750.00 to date just one coin, and a New one die DDR :)

Click the link to view coin http://www.ikedollardoubledie.com/idddo ... d-ee-s.php

Anyone interested in sending coins to IDDD for doubled die attribution, contact Tom, send me an email through the Ike Groups email system or email me directly at t9k9o9@comcast.net

Enjoy the pictures.
Tom.

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Re: New IDDD discovery Ike DDR

Post by Irish2ice » Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:10 pm

Very nice coin indeed!


One question Tom; How do you determine value on a new discovery double die coin?

Since there is no history of sale and no way of determining quantity this early, how is a value not completely arbitrary?
Bob G.

"Leadership is the art of getting someone else to do something you want done because he wants to do it." Dwight D. Eisenhower

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Re: New IDDD discovery Ike DDR

Post by SteveP » Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:31 pm

I might add that, since I am a double die dunce, sending some of my double die Ikes to Tom for attribution has been an education. Getting feedback from Tom, and rechecking the coin on return has been valuable.

I'll be sending in group of four 71S SB Ikes that are, a) DDO/DDR, b) have a large NTR die crack in the motto, and c) have a smaller than normal serif associated with the R, making it more subject to becoming a die abrasion spl.
Like this one: http://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/CoinFac ... 9865&sid=0
Steve Palladino

tko-5

Re: New IDDD discovery Ike DDR

Post by tko-5 » Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:18 am

Determining value for stand alone DDO/DDRs, First any stand alone die that produces doubling is Rare, I say rare because unlike many of the older well known DDOs such as WDDO-022 these New DDO/DDRs are tripled etc. during the last hubbings of that specific die, in other words, WDDO-022 came from an already doubled working hub passed down from a doubled master, most of the older well known DDO/DDRs are of that type of doubled die, the master die is hubbed as well just like the working hub/working die only those older DDOs such as most of the well known DDOs/DDRs are made in groups from hubs that are already doubled giving us many similar looking DDOs that I have put in groups - Hub 1 to Hub 10, these older DDO/DDR are worthy as well but when you have many similar DDOs it tends to lower the value for that type of DDO/DDR, Now for what I describe as stand alone DDO/DDRs are different in this way, we will use Steve's nice DDR as one example - his coin was struck from a quadrupled working die that became quadrupled during the hubbing of that particular working die - a fluke, I have found over written DDO/DDRs.

Overwritten DDOs are a well known doubling that change from an original doubling to a high-bread type of tripling - it can start as doubled on say the left side of the coin morphing into tripled on the other side of the coin, other types you see the older familer type doubling s and another doubling going in a different direction, I call this type doubled/doubled or tripled etc.

Also these New tripled dies will be harder to find then the older types because of the stand alone concept.

In Steve's case he has a PF69 I think D/Cam and in an early die stage and die state, comparing the rarity of the older DDOs to the New DDOs, all these factors give the price, I have even softened the price lower then the older DDO/DDRs for a baseline, they are much harder to get your hands on to date then the older DDOs, time will tell once we start seeing sales.

tko-5

Re: New IDDD discovery Ike DDR

Post by tko-5 » Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:24 am

Steve I remember the conversation about the crack on that 71 s coin, without having seen it yet, this area is a hot spot for cracks, I have seen many 71 s with cracks in that area and they were different dies, be it from a same hub and sometimes from another hub still the area is the issue, as time goes on these high spots will be addressed.

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Re: New IDDD discovery Ike DDR

Post by SteveP » Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:51 am

tko-5 wrote:most of the older well known DDO/DDRs are of that type of doubled die, the master die is hubbed as well just like the working hub/working die only those older DDOs such as most of the well known DDOs/DDRs are made in groups from hubs that are already doubled giving us many similar looking DDOs that I have put in groups - Hub 1 to Hub
Another case in point is 1973 at the San Francico mint and the FS-101.
Steve Palladino

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Re: New IDDD discovery Ike DDR

Post by SteveP » Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:59 am

tko-5 wrote:Steve I remember the conversation about the crack on that 71 s coin, without having seen it yet, this area is a hot spot for cracks, I have seen many 71 s with cracks in that area and they were different dies, be it from a same hub and sometimes from another hub still the area is the issue, as time goes on these high spots will be addressed.
Yes, you are correct, the NTR die crack is not unique. I rechecked the the coins that I intend to send you (there are 5with the NTR die crack and DDO/DDR, not 4 as I mentioned). In fact, one had a different MM placement than the others, so definitely not same die as the others. The others, however, appear to share the same MM placement, and have the more abreviated serif, running through the spl version that I linked to above. I just can't nail down the DDO/DDR - maybe IDDO-112 / IDDR-WH1? I'll let you determine that.
Steve Palladino

tko-5

Re: New IDDD discovery Ike DDR

Post by tko-5 » Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:43 pm

Glade you spotted the differing MM placements, you have a sharp eye, sure thing when your ready send them in.
There is still much to learn, an interesting item am am looking closely, is the fact one of the 71 s hubs look to much like the 73 - 101, I am fascinated with this, as it could be the actual surrogate master for 73 s 101, we know that the 73 s 101 silver proof and a CN proof have the same DDO on them, I checked point to point on both, the tops of the I are the same, even the doubling on the FG is identical, the doubling factor has helped us through the mud on this puppy.
That coin of yours though is a nice new DDR one early stage - state and grade, Steve I feel your coin is a perfect coin for the CPGs next big coin addition, are you willing, hope so, when its time I would like to see your coin illustrated in the CPG, many things I learned including process has come from understanding doubled dies, the doubling in itself be it big or small both are markers that have guided me through much of the muck, we are not done yet, I still have a few real questions to go through.
Why am I finding more different New tripled die etc. for the reverses and not to that degree for the obverses??
I am thinking something to do with the process that is different?

As you can see we are still not 100% done, I will continue to do what should have been done many moons ago by others before me, I have ten years to bring in a new attributor besides Brian for IDDD, hope I find one with a sharp eye like Brian.

I will be hosting a table for IDDD at the New Hampshire coin and currency show, Robert Ezerman will sit in for both days, the main effort is to bring Ike nuts into the fold, be it for RPMs, varieties or doubled dies, Rob has been OK'ed to sell the Ike Groups book through internet sales, I spoke to the boss and all is OK, we will be speaking process also about varieties and doubled dies.

All that can come on down and bring your Ikes for free opinions as well as direct Anacs submissions excepted by Paul M. Joseph director for the north-east submissions.
I am slowly building up the north-east interest in Ikes, it's working.

No man is an island unless you find new Ike DDO/DDRs or RPMs or varieties :)

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