1971 D and 1972 D Peglegs

These Peg Legs were created by the polishing (or abrading) done to the area between Ike's head and the "R" on the working or master dies.
tko-5

1971 D and 1972 D Peglegs

Post by tko-5 » Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:03 am

I am trying to realize how many 71 D and 72 D Peglegs are out there or known?

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Re: 1971 D and 1972 D Peglegs

Post by SteveP » Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:41 am

I'll be interested to see others' answers on this. Based on what I have and have seen available, I'd estimate a 72D:71D ratio of 5:1 to 10:1. And I'd estimate the 72D peg leg to be at a population near, but perhaps slightly less, than the 71D FEV.

These are WAGs, of course. Like I said, I'll be interested to see the responses of some of the Ike Group members.

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Re: 1971 D and 1972 D Peglegs

Post by AndyO » Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:43 pm

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, er, uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...

I'm taking a stab of around 4:1. The 71D peg leg can be a scarcity, but perhaps not quite as obscure as you would think.

Now the 74D peg leg, that's a tough one.
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Re: 1971 D and 1972 D Peglegs

Post by SteveP » Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:30 pm

AOskam wrote:Now the 74D peg leg, that's a tough one.
Of course, I will concede this to you (and the book).

However, again using the WAG methodology of "what I have seen and have collected" raw, I would have guessed the 74D peg leg population to be at least about the same or maybe even more than the 71D.* Goes to demonstrate the fact that it was WAG in the first place.

* Today, I was examining the raw 71D, 72D, and 74D peg legs that I have for other features:
71D total 3
72D total 34 (one of which turned out to be a WDDO-001/WDDR-001)
74D total 13 (with one having a Class II DDO paired with a DRR, and another with a D/D RPM)

Sorry go off topic, Tom. Back to the question of population of 71D and 72D peg legs........
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Re: 1971 D and 1972 D Peglegs

Post by robEzerman » Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:56 pm

Pure guesstimates:
71-D TYPE 1 peg legs (TYPE 1 = FEV) is a one die coin, seems to be about 1 20 to 1 in 50 FEV's?. I've seen them only in early die states, consistent with a total mintage of 5K to 10K, possibly less. If most of the FEV's have gotten out (ie, there are no hoards in bank vaults), 1 in 20 peg legs @5K to 10K produced would correspond to a total FEV mintage of 100,000 to 200,000 and point toward 20 some FEV dies. These guestimates but consistent with out pop estimates generated from our combined 300-500 FEV's cherried over time.
71-D TYPE 2 peg legs are 1 in 20 to 1 in 40 IMHO.
72-D is maybe 50% more common.
Both are quite scarce in fading configuration, estimate 1 out of 50 peg legs?
71-D in straight peg leg (this maybe should be the minimum "pegleggedness" for attribution (except for the FEV)) is around 50%
72-D mostly has a subtle flare, mainly because the superimposed damaged left leg with its skinny slightly bent shape makes it look like a stronger peg leg than it really is, so I estimate straight configuration as 10% to 20%.
74-D peg leg, as Andy stated, is less common in my experience, maybe 1 out of 50. About a third of these are close enough to straight configuration to warrant that attribution, the rest have some degree of flare, from minimal to subtle to not-so-subtoe. I'm pretty sure there are three dies, could be more than that.

(I just read Steve P's comment - illustrated how hazzardous it is to come up with firm estimates based on personal experience, unless one has hundreds and hundreds of examples to work from - Steve's count may be more accurate than my guestimates. . .)

Rob
Now is the time to cherry Ikes. Lots of fruit still on the trees but don't wait too long. Rob Ezerman

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Re: 1971 D and 1972 D Peglegs

Post by SteveP » Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:12 pm

robEzerman wrote:I'm pretty sure there are three dies, could be more than that.
And would one determine that based on MM placement, other markers,.....?

I noticed at least three different MM placements on the 72D peg legs that I looked at today. (determined purely by eyeball method - not using the lines methodolgy that Tom has used)
robEzerman wrote:(I just read Steve P's comment - illustrated how hazzardous it is to come up with firm estimates based on personal experience, unless one has hundreds and hundreds of examples to work from - Steve's count may be more accurate than my guestimates. . .)
Yes, very non-random, unscientific sampling on my part :?
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Re: 1971 D and 1972 D Peglegs

Post by robEzerman » Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:18 am

Steve! Hope you actually read the whole sentence!

Your report is the stuff from which advances are made. As I wrote, your observation on the relative abundance of the 74-D peg leg may prove more accurate than mine. Mine, if an under estimate, may stem from the greater attention I've paid 71 and 72 Denvers over the years.

It's the pooling of data and pooling of specimens that begins to reflect reality. As in finding the "Ice Cleat" image on the foot end of the R's right leg on all, make that ALL! 1972 NI-clad Ikes in earlier die states (that means 72 T1, 72 T2 March, 72 T2 August, 72 T3 and 72-D). The seven of us in the Group back then pulled our earlier die state 72's, around 70 as I remember for this remarkable work that led to an unrecognized but important article (IMHO).

Also, research is a journey, usually a meandering journey of many steps, a journey in which we usually move beyond (if not flatly discard) previous steps. Bottom line: there is precious little "truth" in research, try that on for size!

You should be proud of your observation and of taking the time to report them. Rob
Now is the time to cherry Ikes. Lots of fruit still on the trees but don't wait too long. Rob Ezerman

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Re: 1971 D and 1972 D Peglegs

Post by SteveP » Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:33 am

OK, now I'll cloud the issue with further (perhaps more) unscientific sampling:
Of the graded Denver mint peg legs that I have:
71D 4 total - all MS65
72D 4 total - 2@AU58, 1@MS63*, 1@MS65 *also a WDDO-001/WDDR-001
74D 0

One out-on-a-limb conclusion could be that the general quality of the peg leg coins in each year may have an impact on submissions and thus, graded population reports. Or...one can conclude that 74D peg legs are, indeed, significantly less common than 71D and 72D peg legs.

Dang, I'm going to have to check my 74Ds for potential submissions :roll:
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Re: 1971 D and 1972 D Peglegs

Post by weavertd » Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:54 pm

I'm not sure I can speak to the mintages of the Peg Leg, but I can share with you a couple of my observations from my travels around the USA. This year I landed mint sewn bags of 1000 each, 1971-D & 1972-D. Each bag contained Peg Legs. The 72-D bag yielded ~160 Peg Legs & 71-D bag yielded ~120 Peg Legs. The 72-D bag coins were all 64 & below. The 71-D Bag yielded some fantastic gems, including 3 CAC approve MS66 Peg Leg, Talon Head, Hair Lips.

Outside of these bags, I generally find 74-D's to be the rarest. I have no scientific proof of this only my observations from hundreds of coin shops.

Attached is one of the CAC Approved PCGS MS66 Peg Legs from the bag
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Peg LEg.png

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Re: 1971 D and 1972 D Peglegs

Post by robEzerman » Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:32 pm

Yo, Troy, how many bags of 71-D and 72-D Ikes have you come across in your travels? Rob
Now is the time to cherry Ikes. Lots of fruit still on the trees but don't wait too long. Rob Ezerman

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