1971 D and 1972 D Peglegs

These Peg Legs were created by the polishing (or abrading) done to the area between Ike's head and the "R" on the working or master dies.
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AndyO
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Re: 1971 D and 1972 D Peglegs

Post by AndyO » Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:34 pm

We really ought to throw in the other 2 into this mix, the 76DT2 and the 78D. I'd be interested to hear other's thoughts on these populations also.

Incidentally, without looking, I don't think I have any 74D peg legs graded above MS64, but I think I do have several in that grade. Have to check that.
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tko-5

Re: 1971 D and 1972 D Peglegs

Post by tko-5 » Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:14 am

It seems the 72 P and the 74 D are on the same par and can be called rare. Known to date I am thinking about 20 for the 74 D more for the 72 P.
the 71 D and the 72 D are close as well, to date call them scarce. in the hundreds Known, I have a feeling there are thousands of them.

For the 71 D and the 72 D that are doubled dies more then likely would fall in the rare catagory ( Pegleg/DDO/DDR )

Is there a picture of the 1978 D Pegleg.

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Re: 1971 D and 1972 D Peglegs

Post by SteveP » Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:42 am

AOskam wrote:We really ought to throw in the other 2 into this mix, the 76DT2 and the 78D. I'd be interested to hear other's thoughts on these populations also.
Again, raw CB coins:
71D T1 - 0
71D T2 - 3
72 T1 - 1
72 T3 - 0
72D - 34
74D - 13
76D T1 OAK - 2
76D T2 - 4
77D - 2
78D - 4

To my list of graded CB coins, I can only add one 76DT1 OAK @MS64. Like I said, I need to get my better raw peg legs in for grading.

Troy's bag data was awesome! Hopefully, others will report their findings.

I'll go out on a limb again and guess that nobody here has seen a 73D peg leg (http://forum2.ikegroup.info/viewtopic.p ... 45&start=0)
Last edited by SteveP on Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1971 D and 1972 D Peglegs

Post by weavertd » Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:45 am

robEzerman wrote:Yo, Troy, how many bags of 71-D and 72-D Ikes have you come across in your travels? Rob

Rob so far I have only found 1 mint sewn bag of each 71-D, 72-D. I did buy mint sewn bags of 72-P, 76-P T2, 76-D T2. I passed on a 77-P bag and two 76-D T2 bags.

I was praying the 72-P bag was all Type 2s but no such luck all Type 1s!!!

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Re: 1971 D and 1972 D Peglegs

Post by AndyO » Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:55 pm

STEVE: I've never seen a 77D peg leg, please post a picture. A lot of folks have tried to pass them along before, but all have exhibited serifs which negated the peg leg title.
It seems the 72 P and the 74 D are on the same par and can be called rare. Known to date I am thinking about 20 for the 74 D more for the 72 P.
the 71 D and the 72 D are close as well, to date call them scarce. in the hundreds Known, I have a feeling there are thousands of them.
Tom, your numbers are low. I guarantee there are a good 40 74D in the hands of collectors - at least. Steve and I alone are at 20 or so between us. I know Rob and Brian have some, Gary, Lee, Troy, etc. I too agree and know for fact the 71D and 72 peg legs in collector hands is in the hundreds. I'm sure both are easily in the thousands.
Is there a picture of the 1978 D Pegleg.
See my recent post here: http://forum2.ikegroup.info/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=1627, under section VI. These are not crazy-scarce either. I have a few, and I remember at least one post of a person finding a roll or two of them. 76DT2 peg legs are probably in the same boat as these in terms of abundance in my experience, maybe even a more abundant.

One I'd like to hear more numbers on is the 74S clad peg leg (Eskimo Boot). I own 4.
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Re: 1971 D and 1972 D Peglegs

Post by SteveP » Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:18 pm

AOskam wrote:STEVE: I've never seen a 77D peg leg, please post a picture. A lot of folks have tried to pass them along before, but all have exhibited serifs which negated the peg leg title.
OK:
Here is my #1: http://palladinospics.shutterfly.com/68 Should fly as a peg leg - minimal flare, no serifs.
Here is my #2: http://palladinospics.shutterfly.com/70 Still has flare to the right, looking more like an ebpl.
AOskam wrote:One I'd like to hear more numbers on is the 74S clad peg leg (Eskimo Boot). I own 4.
I have one 74S CP ebpl. It is currently raw: http://palladinospics.shutterfly.com/69 Cherried from eBay.

I check the 74S proof listings on eBay all of the time, trying to cherry an eskimo boot. The serifs are fine enough that they are hard to make out on photos sometimes. I have pulled the string on a few that I have thought were peg legs, but once in hand, fail. I also have one 74S SP eskimo boot peg leg that is graded @PR68 DCAM that I got from Brian.
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Re: 1971 D and 1972 D Peglegs

Post by AndyO » Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:11 am

OK:
Here is my #1: http://palladinospics.shutterfly.com/68 Should fly as a peg leg - minimal flare, no serifs.
Here is my #2: http://palladinospics.shutterfly.com/70 Still has flare to the right, looking more like an ebpl.
Definitely no dice on the second one. For me the first one doesn't make it either, as I am a peg leg purist. In my book, any flare (increase in width at the leg bottom) is not a peg leg. The leg has to at the very least dead straight, if not tapered to a smaller width at the bottom. Rob will try to refute that and sway you the other way with creative explanations - don't fall to the dark side. For me it's cut and dry, and very simply defined. Dave Golan has expressed the same thoughts as mine also.

Needless to say that throws the 74S Eskimo Boot into an unusual situation for me: By my standards above, it's not a peg leg. But, since it's appears to be a one die type variety and we actually recognize and specify the "toe" on the bottom as an identifying attribute, I'm on board - kind of like it's own variety type and the term peg leg happens to be part of the name (how's that for rationalization).
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Re: 1971 D and 1972 D Peglegs

Post by SteveP » Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:06 am

AOskam wrote:In my book, any flare (increase in width at the leg bottom) is not a peg leg.
With great respect, you just whittled down Chapter 3 by quite a bit - on both the design peg leg and die state / die abrasion peg leg side :o
Last edited by SteveP on Wed Nov 07, 2012 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1971 D and 1972 D Peglegs

Post by AndyO » Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:22 pm

Sure did! Don't get me started on the supposed 71S straight peg leg - Rob and I have had that battle for years. I'm sure if you look hard enough you can dig up plenty of old forum posts.
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tko-5

Re: 1971 D and 1972 D Peglegs

Post by tko-5 » Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:57 pm

The Ike groups forum is a great place for the Ike dollar varieties.
All of you that have partaken in this post in my opinion are dedicated Ike dollar collectors, for the fellows that have the next guy at hart I say Thank you for being good fellow collectors.

Just like to touch on one item, I have come to some kind of conclusion when it comes to the 71 S peg-legs, proofs and the 401 as well as Wexler's WDDO-007, it seems the abrasion is going left to right, noticing on the 401 and on many proofs, skinny lettering, with the longer or better said stronger serif tip is always on the right tip of the foot, this is indicative of left to right motion, mechanical in nature, a type of rotary tool, I say it's done to the hub (Working hubs are a dime a dozen compared to working dies) there are a few straight legs out there as well not abraded on the hub the same way, more then likely is a dremal type tool.
Working die's are abraded as well, this is done to fix issue's created onto the working hub, so a die will get abraded and polished normally in a rotary like direction before being used, any clashes are if necessary removed with a same rotary tool as used on the hub, a fine wire brush rotary type tool could get down low, with abrasion marks going in different directions on Ike's head, this is a type of repair seen on low relief and high relief proof working dies.

Two types of methods used, one would be the normal circular type we all see, for instance the 1972 s 101 has circular abrasion marks at the ear and is authenticated that way, this is a dangerous way to authenticate these dies because if another 101 type DDO from a same hub can have different but very close to the same abrasion lines, best way to attribute the obverse is by mint mark placements, importance of Mint Mark placement are well known now Thanks to IDDD releasing the information to the Ike Group through Brian, to date has gone thankless that I know of but for Brian??? I Thanked the man that was the one that realized this and passed it on the those that did not understand, he is a top notch attributor and I will always look at that one very strong point as being one of the top bits of information for attributing DDO Ikes, not the IKe Group but the older ones new of the information no one was ever told, what a bunch of guys?? second factors are markers.

The second type is a repair tool, dremal like, used on the hub to repair or change the the shape of the R in liberty ( straight leg ).
This second type tool can be and I believe was used this time with wheel type fine wire brush used on the working hub and working die. Used on the working die to remove clash marks and other issues on the die face.

The third type is a hand applied abrasion, this type is done by hand to the working die to remove clash marks, this type shows itself as abrasion marks going in many directions and seen on a multitude of high and low relief working dies, the give away is when the head is done on the working die and shows on the head from time to time.

All working dies are abraded to some degree and polished and then frosted before put to use.

Thanks Andy, I rechecked and you are right, I made corrections.
Thanks to all of you.

Something to think about.
Last edited by tko-5 on Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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