How Rare are the "peg legs"

These Peg Legs were created by the polishing (or abrading) done to the area between Ike's head and the "R" on the working or master dies.
BillSanders

How Rare are the "peg legs"

Post by BillSanders » Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:47 pm

Please See:A SURVEY of PEG LEGS in 12 QUESTIONS
by Rob Ezerman .
There is a table and dicussion( at question 6.) in this article which will help in understanding how rare the "peg legs" are.
Bill

BillSanders

Re: How Rare are the "peg legs"

Post by BillSanders » Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:44 pm

Rob, great job. This list will be very helpful at shows.
Bill

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Re: How Rare are the "peg legs"

Post by robEzerman » Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:51 pm

(Sorry for this late response)

Die-state, die-abrasion peg legs are known for both T1 and T3 72 CB Ikes but none have been (nor will they) be found for the 72 T2 Ikes.

I've written extensively on the 72 CB Ikes: they seem all to be down line from a "Promoted" compound-doubled 72 Master Die (see our Coneca ES article under Articles).

What Wiles catalogs as a 72 "Peg on Serif Class III DDO" is in fact the common image of all 72 CB Ikes, all four of them.

The image is variably intense depending on die state and confounding variables like MDD but the "Peg on Serif R" is but one of several "Strange Markers" that can be found on all 72 Ikes, even in LDS, though the X6 doubling washes out quite rapidly until by MDS it is simple doubling.

This "Peg on Serif" is probably the product of the original dies or working hubs chosen for promotion to hub a new low-relief 72 Master Die: one of them probably had had a significant repair to the left leg of the R that resulted in a peg leg configuration. In other words, Wiles was partly right, that this master die was the product of two different working hubs due to intervening repairs to the WH or due to two different WH's, one of which had been repaired.

Wiles, IMHO is wrong that the peg leg image "proves" the existence of a peg leg Master Hub.

BUT, the bottom line is 72 peg legs have to be examined closely since most so designated are in fact not peg legs but just have had some abrading to the underlying Serif-R component so the peg leg component dominates.

I've proposed a system of Grading Ike die-state peg legs in part to deal with this issue: basically a 72 peg leg that is rectangular under a scope is Grade A, under a loupe is Grade B and by naked eye is Grade C: seems one way to acctake into account the "spread" of peg-leggedness in the 72 Ikes.

By all means, post any pictures you have of the example you bumped to Brian Allen! Rob

You gots to read the ES article carefuly for any of this tgo make sense, LOL!
Now is the time to cherry Ikes. Lots of fruit still on the trees but don't wait too long. Rob Ezerman

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Re: How Rare are the "peg legs"

Post by SteveP » Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:13 am

Has anyone seen a (die abrason) peg leg 1973 business stike Ike?
If there are none, why might that be?

Also, why are Philadelphia mint (die abrasion) peg legs so rare, relative to the Denver mint (die abrasion) peg legs that can be found in virtually every year of issue (other than 1973)?

-Steve Palladino
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Re: How Rare are the "peg legs"

Post by robEzerman » Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:04 pm

Good questions.

73 Ikes were Mint Set only, presumably received closer attention to minting errors.

Philly paid closer attention to clashed dies in general, perhaps because that mint was so often visited by DC big shots? Or because Gasparro was always nosing around?

There's so much we will probably never know! Rob
Now is the time to cherry Ikes. Lots of fruit still on the trees but don't wait too long. Rob Ezerman

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Re: How Rare are the "peg legs"

Post by SteveP » Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:42 pm

robEzerman wrote: 73 Ikes were Mint Set only, presumably received closer attention to minting errors.

Philly paid closer attention to clashed dies in general, perhaps because that mint was so often visited by DC big shots? Or because Gasparro was always nosing around?

There's so much we will probably never know! Rob
And such is the mystique that goes with Ikes. Thank you.
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Re: How Rare are the "peg legs"

Post by HerbHicks » Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:25 am

<<Also, why are Philadelphia mint (die abrasion) peg legs so rare, relative to the Denver mint (die abrasion) peg legs that can be found in virtually every year of issue (other than 1973)?>>

Offhand I can't remember the dates, but Philadelphia presses were modified to prevent clashes before Denver was. (The system was still not foolproof).

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Re: How Rare are the "peg legs"

Post by AndyO » Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:01 pm

I have to wonder if it just took too long for Denver to get replacement dies, that their management mentality was to just abrade them to death so as to meet production quotas? It must have been no problem for Philadelphia to get a new die since they were making them. Based on the difficulties in striking the new large dollar (meaning they incurred lots of down time) and what I suspect were huge differences in manufacturing process controls and equipment at each facility, I would lay my money there.

Why doesn't someone just drop what they are doing for 20 years and catalog every single die and die pair ever used by each mint. If the Philadelphia numbers are higher, then we can probably rationalize that.
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Re: How Rare are the "peg legs"

Post by robEzerman » Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:52 pm

Herb, I have no solid info but read that the Philly Mint installed a mechanism in their Ike presses to quickly shut down the presses after a clash. Thus, the paucity of Multiple-bang" Philly clashed Ikes. Does this make sense?

Andy, agree with your additionall thought, and have so written in V2, somewhere. 8 weeks and counting! Rob
Now is the time to cherry Ikes. Lots of fruit still on the trees but don't wait too long. Rob Ezerman

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Re: How Rare are the "peg legs"

Post by HerbHicks » Wed Aug 29, 2012 12:33 am

Rob, It makes sense, except I thought the scheme was to prevent a clash in the first place. If a blank was not in position, the press would stop. But this whole subject is a little fuzzy to me now.

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