78 CP flared pl

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pappyxyz1
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78 CP flared pl

Post by pappyxyz1 » Tue Feb 23, 2016 8:07 pm

Any
Last edited by pappyxyz1 on Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

SteveP
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Re: 78 CP flared pl

Post by SteveP » Tue Feb 23, 2016 9:35 pm

Looks EBPL to me.
Rare.
Value: $200+
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AndyO
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Re: 78 CP flared pl

Post by AndyO » Wed Feb 24, 2016 6:28 pm

Hold on there men. Definitely not an Eskimo Boot. Alan Herbert would roll in his grave. Eskimo Boots by his definition have ZERO serif or even the slightest outward taper on the left side, and just the ever so slightest hint of a serif bulge on the right. Ultimately that all could be debunked with further die studies of them. We might have to expand the definition.

I personally wouldn't qualify it as a peg leg (I am a peg leg purist...) - just going on eyeball judgement. It is definitely interesting, though. The gap between it and the scalp is prominent. It's a nice find.
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Re: 78 CP flared pl

Post by SteveP » Thu Feb 25, 2016 12:58 am

AndyO wrote:Hold on there men. Definitely not an Eskimo Boot. Alan Herbert would roll in his grave. Eskimo Boots by his definition have ZERO serif or even the slightest outward taper on the left side, and just the ever so slightest hint of a serif bulge on the right. Ultimately that all could be debunked with further die studies of them. We might have to expand the definition.

I personally wouldn't qualify it as a peg leg (I am a peg leg purist...) - just going on eyeball judgement. It is definitely interesting, though. The gap between it and the scalp is prominent. It's a nice find.
Andy,

I am aware of Alan Herbert's November 1971 identification and naming of the 1971S SP Ikes as "peg legs". Are you aware of any additional articles or writings in which Alan Herbert further discusses peg elgs in general, and/or eskimo boot pegs legs? If so, can you provide citations for me to search? I'd love to read more.

The Ike Group's "big book" defines peg legs as: "1. The absence of serifs of the foot of the left leg of the "R" in LIBERTY; and 2. Greater separation of the foot from hair."

I do realize that you are a self-proclaimed "peg leg purist", and even go so far as to further define peg legs as not being wider at the foot than the width of the leg above (the straight line test). Your definition would exclude the eskimo boot peg leg as a peg leg, as well as many design 1972S and 1971S peg legs. In fact, your definition effectively (and sadly, IMO) relegated the 1971S SB SPL (formerly known as the Straight Peg Leg or Redwood Trunk Peg Leg) to a non-peg leg DIVa catalog number - 1SB-601.

This 1978S CP appears to no longer have the sharp serif point on the left side of the base of the "foot" of the R (in-hand inspection withstanding), and does have what appears to have wider separation of the "foot" from the hair. To me, that opens it to potential classification as a peg leg. What is particularly interesting is that the die stage appears to be IDDO stage D - relatively early for evolution of a die state proof peg leg. Curiously, it also appears that this 1973S SP peg leg is also IDDO stage D and would also fail the "straight line test".

1973, 1974, 1977, and 1978 proofs lend themselves to a unique definition of peg leg, IMO, in which a) there is no sharp pointy serif left on the left side of the foot, b) the right side of the foot may bulge to the right beyond the "straight Line" vertical of the leg, and c) demonstrates greater separation of the foot from hair. This allows for the eskimo boot peg leg appearance.

Regardless, I do agree that further die studies are warranted. I am taking this on (once I retire in June). Identification of peg legs by some general definition would also be enhanced by identification of die markers and MMP. With identification of die markers and MMP for peg legs meeting the definition, attribution becomes less a matter of splitting hairs, as it would then involve matching die markers to known DIVa documentation established by further study.
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AndyO
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Re: 78 CP flared pl

Post by AndyO » Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:04 pm

Alan corresponded with us for a number of year prior to us even starting the website. It was during this time that he coined the Eskimo Boot name. I would certainly agree that it's simply a moniker, and not a true peg leg by our standards. I doubt I have any correspondence any more due to a hard drive crash a few years back, but will check for you.

In regards to the 1SB-601 being known as a peg leg - I'm not a fan. Never have been. I used to go rounds with Rob all the time on that particular coin like you wouldn't believe - in a totally friendly manner, of course. At some point he or we came up with the Stovepipe name instead. Regardless of the semantics, I absolutely agree it's a great coin to search for; these are not common. It deserves DIVa status in my opinion.

As far as this coin, I like the separation the most. Can't say I've ever noticed one like that before. I personally think it has potential as a collectable Ike.

On a side note, I was thinking last night how to devise an overlay gauge to apply two parallel lines to the leg via a home PC, similar in concept to the mint mark placement. It can be done, but I don't possess the software to do such. In my mind, you'd want to place a line against both top and bottom left hand side high points of the leg, lock it, and make a second line perfectly parallel to the first move to the right side of the leg. Then you could quickly determine where the first open space appears between line and leg; at the top (not a peg leg), at the bottom (peg leg), or touches both (peg leg). Here again, I'm assuming we are using a definition that the leg width is at the very least the same dimension at the bottom that it is at the top, or smaller. Although, I think there would have to be a stipulation on a magnification limit.
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