Micro S

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1872Hokie
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Re: Micro S

Post by 1872Hokie » Mon May 06, 2013 8:47 am

Honestly, until I looked and knew what I was looking for, the clad version wasn't even on my radar. I think there could be a push to make the clad more accepted and recognized.
Did you get my message Steve about the one clad I found?
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Re: Micro S

Post by SteveP » Mon May 06, 2013 11:25 am

1872Hokie wrote:Honestly, until I looked and knew what I was looking for, the clad version wasn't even on my radar. I think there could be a push to make the clad more accepted and recognized.
Did you get my message Steve about the one clad I found?
I did get your message, thank you ;) It's on it's way.
What would make the 74 CP micro S is documentation of it as a single die variety. There is no evidence to support that claim - yet.
It would be helpful if those reading this thread were to search their 74 CP and SP holdings for the micro S and PM me if they have one. I'd like to get MMP on any out there. For that matter, the same goes if you find a MMS1 in your 74 CP&SP collection.
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Re: Micro S

Post by 1872Hokie » Mon May 06, 2013 11:38 am

Steve, if I recall correctly, that seller had another possible mms-1 as well but I wasn't as confident in it so I left its mention out.
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Re: Micro S

Post by pappyxyz1 » Mon May 06, 2013 7:39 pm

Ok
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Re: Micro S

Post by 1872Hokie » Mon May 06, 2013 8:10 pm

They are all mms-1 mint marks. Currently, the micro-s is in reference to the silver proof, although now that I am looking for it, the clad proof should also be recognized IMO.
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Re: Micro S

Post by SteveP » Mon May 06, 2013 8:52 pm

1872Hokie wrote:They are all mms-1 mint marks. Currently, the micro-s is in reference to the silver proof, although now that I am looking for it, the clad proof should also be recognized IMO.
Agree that all appear to be MMS1. #1&3 look possible - depends on how much field is present in the upper loop when in hand, under loupe. #2 is not micro S.
Here is a clad example: http://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/CoinFac ... 9867&sid=0
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Re: Micro S

Post by pappyxyz1 » Mon May 06, 2013 9:10 pm

Ah
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Re: Micro S

Post by SteveP » Sun May 12, 2013 2:59 am

I had a look at the 1974S coins that I have on hand today. The goal was to isolate the MMS1 coins, then place Tom's MMP lines on each, with the intention to identify the various MMPs for the MMS1 on SB, CP, and SP.

I did not count the number of 1974S that had MMS2a-c, but I'd questimate that the ratio was perhaps 1:2 MMS1:MMS2.

Of the SB, there were 11 with MMS1. There were at least 6 different MMPs. Without displaying the exact MMP here, the distribution of coins to the various MMPs was 5, 2, 1, 1, 1, 1.

Of the CP, there were 11 with MMS1. There were at least 7 different MMPs. The distribution of coins to the various MMPs was 3, 2, 2, 1, 1, 1, 1. In this collection of 11 MMS1 coins, there were three coins that would qualify at a Micro-S, with field present within the upper loop. Two of the Micro-S coins had the same MMP, while the third had a different MMP. Of the two Micro-S coins with the same MMP, one was earlier (with a near ebpl), and the other was later (with clear cut ebpl). There were no matching MMPs to the third Micro-S.

Of the SP, there were 6 with MMS1. There were at least 3 different MMPs. The distribution of coins to the various MMPs was 3, 2, 1. In this collection of 6 MMS1 coins, there was one Micro-S, with field present within the upper loop. There were no matching MMPs to the Micro-S.

There were no MMPs that were similarly placed between the CP and SP coins, suggesting that there were no dies used for production of both CP and SP in this sampling. There was a MMP that was similarly placed on 2 SB and 3 CP coins - no further inferences can be made at this time.

Comments
1) I am awaiting 3 more confirmed SP Micro-S coins to establish MMP. I'll add to these data as I complete additional work.
2) The finding of two coins with the same MMP and at two identifiably different states of development strongly suggests that die polish treatments had at least some role in the evolution of the Micro-S appearance. Establishment of the MMP allows us to now look for other coins produced from this die at various other earlier (and perhaps later) die states.
3) Establishment of MMP can serve as the foundation for eventually establishing how many dies produced 1974 Micro-S coins.
4) Interpretation of the relative distribution of coins from this sampling must be done with the understanding that the sampling (acquisition/purchasing) of coins in my collection is not entirely random.
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Re: Micro S

Post by 1872Hokie » Wed May 15, 2013 10:40 am

SteveP wrote:Of the SP, there were 6 with MMS1. There were at least 3 different MMPs. The distribution of coins to the various MMPs was 3, 2, 1. In this collection of 6 MMS1 coins, there was one Micro-S, with field present within the upper loop. There were no matching MMPs to the Micro-S.
Time for me to add a new wrinkle to the SP MMS1 "Micro-S" side of things...
The two coins I submitted to Brian Vaile to be DIVA'ed were both deemed worthy of the Micro-S designation, but they may have different MM placements.
I'll share more information as it becomes available, and if Brian is around and, would like to chime in, I'm sure he'd be able to give an even better overview of the findings.

Yet again, this is proof positive that there is so much happening with this series. Varieties abound and are just waiting to be found. Moreover, if these coins had been examined seperately and without the other one there to compare at the same time, this could have gone undiscovered even longer. Very Exciting.

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-Bryan
Back to the Hunt...
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Re: Micro S

Post by SteveP » Sun May 19, 2013 6:40 pm

1872Hokie wrote:
SteveP wrote:Of the SP, there were 6 with MMS1. There were at least 3 different MMPs. The distribution of coins to the various MMPs was 3, 2, 1. In this collection of 6 MMS1 coins, there was one Micro-S, with field present within the upper loop. There were no matching MMPs to the Micro-S.
Time for me to add a new wrinkle to the SP MMS1 "Micro-S" side of things...
The two coins I submitted to Brian Vaile to be DIVA'ed were both deemed worthy of the Micro-S designation, but they may have different MM placements.
I'll share more information as it becomes available, and if Brian is around and, would like to chime in, I'm sure he'd be able to give an even better overview of the findings.
-Bryan
I just finished adding Tom's MMP lines to three additional 74S micro-s SPs (two of which are the two coins that Bryan mentions above). I can confirm unequivocally that there were at least* 4 different MMS-1 dies used, and of these 4, two were responsible for micro-s coins (74S SP micro-s MMP1 and MMP2 photos below). (*given this sampling of only 9 SP coins with MMS-1, there could be more MMS-1 dies, and for that matter, micro-s dies).

Of the 9 74S SP coins with MMS-1 that I have examined the MMP on, the distribution to the 4 different MMPs was 3 normal MMS-1, 2 normal MMS-1, 2 micro-s MMP-1 and 2 micro-s MMP-2. There were no normal-looped MMS-1 coins with MMPs that matched the micro-s coins' MMP. In all of the micro-S coins, it was the upper loop that had field showing.

If you have a 74S SP with a MMS-1 (micro-s or not), I'd love to check the MMP and add it to the catalogue. PM me.
Attachments
brian micro s 1.png
74S SP micro-s MMP1
brian micro s 3.png
74S SP micro-s MMP2
Steve Palladino

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