Micro S

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1872Hokie
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Re: Micro S

Post by 1872Hokie » Fri May 24, 2013 11:12 am

I figured it out, the top pic is of the PR69DCAM and the bottom pic is the PR68DCAM. I could tell by the small mark above the 7 in the bottom photo and matched it to the PR68 (mark is partially obscured by the triangulation lines).

So if I am counting correctly, that makes 4 MMP1 Micro-S and 2 MMP2 Micro-S, correct?
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-Bryan

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Re: Micro S

Post by SteveP » Fri May 24, 2013 11:25 am

1872Hokie wrote:So if I am counting correctly, that makes 4 MMP1 Micro-S and 2 MMP2 Micro-S, correct?
Actually, it's 2 MMP1 Micro-S, 2 MMP2 Micro-S, and 2 possible MMP1 Micro-S ;) I can't be certain that Lee's and Jay's are definitely MMP1, or if one of them might even be a 3rd MMP. Out on a limb, I'd say their both MMP1.
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Re: Micro S

Post by 1872Hokie » Fri May 24, 2013 11:27 am

Cool, I'm still searching for more candidates, so I will keep you posted on what I find.
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Re: Micro S

Post by SteveP » Fri May 24, 2013 11:28 am

1872Hokie wrote:I figured it out, the top pic is of the PR69DCAM and the bottom pic is the PR68DCAM. I could tell by the small mark above the 7 in the bottom photo and matched it to the PR68 (mark is partially obscured by the triangulation lines).
That makes two PR69 for MMP1 and two PR68 for MMP2.
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Re: Micro S

Post by jaceravone » Fri May 24, 2013 7:07 pm

Hey Steve,
I will work on that when I get back from vacation next week. The 74S was found in a lot of 100 silver IKEs that a dealer had. The dealer had cherried all the Doubled dies, but I found this one micro S out of all the other 74S's that he had. Thanks again for your comments.

Joe

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Re: Micro S

Post by 1872Hokie » Tue May 28, 2013 2:24 pm

Thanks Joe,
The more examples of the Micro S we can identify the better.
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Re: Micro S

Post by SteveP » Wed May 29, 2013 1:39 am

SteveP wrote:I just finished adding Tom's MMP lines to three additional 74S micro-s SPs (two of which are the two coins that Bryan mentions above). I can confirm unequivocally that there were at least* 4 different MMS-1 dies used, and of these 4, two were responsible for micro-s coins (74S SP micro-s MMP1 and MMP2 photos below). (*given this sampling of only 9 SP coins with MMS-1, there could be more MMS-1 dies, and for that matter, micro-s dies).

Of the 9 74S SP coins with MMS-1 that I have examined the MMP on, the distribution to the 4 different MMPs was 3 normal MMS-1, 2 normal MMS-1, 2 micro-s MMP-1 and 2 micro-s MMP-2. There were no normal-looped MMS-1 coins with MMPs that matched the micro-s coins' MMP. In all of the micro-S coins, it was the upper loop that had field showing.

If you have a 74S SP with a MMS-1 (micro-s or not), I'd love to check the MMP and add it to the catalogue. PM me.
Preliminary revision:
I now have Bryan's PR69 and PR68 Micro-S coins in hand to compare to the PR69 Micro-S coin that I already have.
My Micro-S has a third unique MMP. Very similar to Bryan's PR69 (MMP1 in previous posts), but subtlely different in MMP and with other markers that differentiate it from Bryan's.
That makes at least 5 different MMS-1 dies, of which, 3 produced Micro-S coins. :o
MMP1
Bryan's PR69
possibly Joe's Micro-S (awaiting better photo)
MMP2
Bryan's PR68
Brian's PR68
Randy's raw Micro-S candidate
MMP3
Steve's (formerly Brian's PR69)

Lee's photo was too pixilated to tell, but may also be a MMP1.

All of the three different Micro-s coins that I have in hand to study are DDO (MD). I'll be studying for other markers for the remainder of this week. Awaiting Brian's PR68 Micro-S to study in hand.
Attachments
Bryan 03957697 PR 69  MMP1 2.jpg
MMP1
Bryan 71657307 PR 68 MMP2.jpg
MMP2
SP 16842989 MMS1 micro s.jpg
MMP3
Steve Palladino

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Re: Micro S

Post by 1872Hokie » Wed May 29, 2013 11:12 am

And the plot thickens...
So we now have 3 different MMP's for the Micro-S, and in all likelihood we have potentially increased the minted population by another 2,000?
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Re: Micro S

Post by SteveP » Wed May 29, 2013 11:50 am

1872Hokie wrote:And the plot thickens...
So we now have 3 different MMP's for the Micro-S, and in all likelihood we have potentially increased the minted population by another 2,000?
I figure at least 10,000 MMS-1 SP Ikes were produced from at least* 5 dies. It is my contention that the Micro-S was a product, in part, of die polishing, and therefore, would be produced only near the latter part of a MMS-1 die production cycle. If true, hypothetically, the population of 74S SP Micro-S Ikes is likely very fractional of 6,000.

I'm hoping to study this "fractional" aspect in the same-MMP coins that I have in hand. As I partially postulated in a prior post, the population of Micro-S coins is dependent on a) "batch size" (# in each production run after each re-polishing), b) how aggressive the polishing was applied (how much field emerged in the upper loop of the S with each polishing), c) the # of batches produced after the initial emergence of what would qualify as a Micro-S on a given die, and d) whether the emergence of a Micro-S had anything to do with discontinuation of using a die.

If the batch size was small, and the # of batches produced after the initial emergence was small, then the 74S SP Micro-S remains a scarce coin, even with three known dies.

* again, the caveat is that there may be 74S SP coins from still other MMS-1 dies out there - the study sample is still small. There were just over 1.3 million 74S SP coins produced.
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Re: Micro S

Post by SteveP » Sat Jun 01, 2013 10:48 pm

Fun with numbers:
The mintage of 74S SP was 1,306,646. An average production per die was 2000. That means there were approximately 653 obverse dies used. Let's call it 655. Of these ~655, 5 have been identified to have MMS-1. That's <1%. There are likely more dies with MMS-1 out there?

I re-visited a sampling of the 71S SP coins that I have in holders. I looked at 23 coins, of which:
13 were MMS-1 without field within the loops (56%)
6 were MMS-1 with field within the upper loop, appearing like our 74S SP Micro-S (26%)
3 were MMS-1 with field within the upper and lower loop (13%) (example below)
1 was MMS-1 with field within the lower loop only (4%)
Again, the appearance or absence of field within the loop(s) appeared to correlate with the die state (separation of W & E).

It is hard to extrapolate these latter data to 1974, but they do that micro-s is a fractional outcome (44% in this sampling) of the total MMS-1 die production.

There are 5 known MMS-1 1974S SP dies. Three of those die are known to have produced Micro-S coins.

I'll go out on a limb (with more study and further discovery yet to occur), and guess that there were <4500 Micro-S coins produced.
Attachments
71S micro S open upper and lower loop.jpg
71S SP micro-s with field within upper and lower loops
Steve Palladino

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