1974S Ike varieties

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1974S Ike varieties

Post by quarter-back » Tue Dec 30, 2014 3:10 pm

Hi, folks

I am a new member and would like to introduce myself. I collected coins as a kid, and then picked it up again about 6 years ago after a 30 year hiatus. I am fascinated by obverse and reverse die varieties and mintmark styles. Although doubled dies and RPMs are neat, my primary focus is on the "intentional" die varieties. Right now, I am trying to identify the various 1974-S Ike ODV/MMS/planchet combinations. By my count, there are 4 (and possibly 5) mintmark styles/die stages (Type 1, and Types 2a, 2b, and 2c) and 2 ODVs on 3 different planchet types. That works out to at least 24 possible combinations. Dr. Wiles shows 11 planchet/MMS combintaions, but I can find very little information on the ODV/MMS combinations. I have poured over everything I can find online, including as many usable pictures on e-bay as I can find. Does anyone know which ODV/MMS die pairings are known to exist?

TIA for any info you may provide.

SteveP
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Re: 1974S Ike varieties

Post by SteveP » Tue Dec 30, 2014 4:36 pm

Sounds like you have already read the CONECA information.

My RPM & MMS Showcase might help a bit as well*. I just added a 74S SB MMS-2b this past weekend. There was no 2b listed for 74S SB in Wiles CONECA listings. Thsi is the first one that I have seen.
* I need to work on photos - just go the new photo set-up yesterday.
Steve Palladino

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Re: 1974S Ike varieties

Post by quarter-back » Wed Dec 31, 2014 7:55 am

Thanks for the info. I'll look forward to seeing your new pictures.

BrianVaile
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Re: 1974S Ike varieties

Post by BrianVaile » Wed Dec 31, 2014 9:05 am

Back in 2009-2010, I was learning a lot from Joh Bordner about RPM Ikes. I was amazed that there was only a couple of RPM's known for the series and just felt there had to be more. JB was the go-to guy for RPM verification for CONECA. I met him at FUN and he helped me out tremendously.

I helped him out a lot on the 74-S/S RPM's as well. He was semi-convinced that these could be attributed to a deteriorating punch. He asked me if I could provide him a large group of possible RPM 74-S/S's. I put together a large box of over 50 brown box (minus the outer box), a bunch of slabbed and a few raw. He spent several months doing his 74-S/S "Study".

At the end of it all, he determined that the (2) 74-S/S Ikes would now be de-listed, due to the fact they were caused by a deteriorating punch. He also said because of the large sample, he was able to track the progression "from beginning to end".

I don't know what kind of notes he took on his 74-S/S Study, but I do know that he was very knowledgable and meticulous. All I have to go on is a couple of emails he sent me at the end of his study:

From: John Bordner <jwb209@epix.net>
Subject: Coin Exams
To: "Brian Vaile" <gandyjai@yahoo.com>
Date: Wednesday, December 29, 2010, 8:53 AM
Brian,
 
I completed the examination of your coins and I’ll list my findings below.  I also completed the 1974-S mintmark study (finally).  I’ll ship all the coins together.  It includes the original coins that you sent for study, 6 raw 1974-S Ikes that you sent later and the coins I just examined.
 
From this study I have eliminated all 1974-S Ikes that were previously listed as RPMs.  They include WRPM-001 attributed to Tony Russo and WRPM-002 attributed to you.
 
JB

Brian,
 
The coins went out in the mail today.  Let me know when they arrive.
 
I was able to track the progression of the 74-S mintmark punch from beginning to end.
 
JB



Miss You John! :cry:
Happy Hunting!
Brian

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Re: 1974S Ike varieties

Post by quarter-back » Thu Jan 01, 2015 4:17 pm

Thanks for the info. As part of putting together a list of possibilities and acquiring examples of each type, I have come across several that are intermediate between the the stage B and stage C MMS-002s. They have the notch in the serif but, at high mag, also have a small amount of the separation in the upper loop. I'm still trying to decide where I will place the cut-off. Unfortunately, it is pretty subjective. Any insights?

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Re: 1974S Ike varieties

Post by AndyO » Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:27 pm

I am fascinated by obverse and reverse die varieties and mintmark styles.
As a sidebar to this thread, what is it exactly about this specific facet of collecting that fuels one's interest?
Authorized CAC and QA dealer

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Re: 1974S Ike varieties

Post by quarter-back » Tue Jan 06, 2015 8:43 am

Not quite sure, but when I got back into coins, I came across the variety-vista site and saw that, for some years, there were multiple mintmark styles within a given denomination. That started me trying to get one of each year/mintmark style combination. When I got to the quarters, I discovered (figuratively, not literally) the multiple obverses for the 34's. That, in turn, led to Cladkings observations of multiple reverses on the early clad quarters, and it was downhill from there.

The thing that is nice is that building sets by die/mintmark style gives me an incredible diversity of things to look for, many of which are quite challenging to find. In some cases, there was only one die pairing that was used to strike a given obverse/reverse/mintmark style combo. Best of all though is that I can look for extremely rare varieties that I then get for next to nothing because few others else know/care about them. I have found many very rare, but little known, die combos that I got for the typical price for that date and mint.

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