ARE ALL 71-D DDO-001/DDR-001 FEV's???

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robEzerman
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ARE ALL 71-D DDO-001/DDR-001 FEV's???

Post by robEzerman » Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:30 pm

John Bradley asked me an interesting question: "Is it possible Wexler missed an FEV reverse on his cataloged DDO-001/DDR-001?

His book does not show any detail that could answer this question.

So, I'm asking you guys if you have on hand (or have seen) a 71-D DDO-001/DDR-001 that is not an FEV?

My MS65 example of a 71-D DDO-001/DDR-001 is an FEV and I have always been subliminally puzzled that the DDR on that coin is the exact same DDR in Wexler's pictures! How could the very different FEV design have the same reverse doubling as Wexler's presumably common 71-D DDO-001/DDR-001?

The simplest answer is Wexler missed the FEV reverse on his example (he may never have seen the coin itself, just the photos of the doubled minor devices). Rob
Now is the time to cherry Ikes. Lots of fruit still on the trees but don't wait too long. Rob Ezerman

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Re: ARE ALL 71-D DDO-001/DDR-001 FEV's???

Post by 19Lyds » Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:16 pm

I do not have any DDO-001/DDR-001 1971-D's but you might possibly be right Rob since the Reference was "published" in 1998 (meaning that more than likely, work was done on the book through out 1997 if not earlier) yet the FEV was not "discovered" until November/December 1999 (more than likely as a direct result of the reference guide).

I also know for a fact that when the initial 1971-S Type 1 Proof was submitted to John, he had to look at it a second time to "see" the Type 1 reverse. I believe that these folks were concentrating on the lettering vs the design.
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Re: ARE ALL 71-D DDO-001/DDR-001 FEV's???

Post by BrianVaile » Sun Apr 18, 2010 10:22 am

According to Roberts, that is exactly the case.....Wexler didn't know about the RDV-006 when he had found the 71-DDO-001 and included it in his 1997 Ike Book. I had included what I thought was a DDO/DDR FEV in my last ANACS shipment. I also included the $10 search and attribute fee for this coin. It came back as a DDO-001 RDV-006 and this comment: "Exact match for plate in Wexler's book, see die gouge between TR. Listed prior to discovery of reverse hub type. Effect on reverse is from die wear."

So, apparently the DDR effect is from die deterioration doubling?

Happy Hunting!
Brian

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Re: ARE ALL 71-D DDO-001/DDR-001 FEV's???

Post by robEzerman » Sun Apr 18, 2010 11:40 am

Good on John Roberts for picking up yet another important die marker! Do not think he's correct about the reverse: what seems to be the exact same DDR is to be found on the 71-S SB SPL, and that sure as heck isn't due to die wear. . . But if these two reverses carry the same doubling pattern, we have yet another puzzle.

Wiles states the 71-S SB SPL's DDR is from an up-line doubled working hub (p 28-29 in his Ike book) but even knowking the Mint hubbed in both directions it's not easy to picture how the FEV DDR could carry the same DDR as the Type 1 reverse on the SPL. I've just assumed they look the same but must be different. Need an EDS FEV DDR-001 to begin to figure this one out, LOL! Rob
Now is the time to cherry Ikes. Lots of fruit still on the trees but don't wait too long. Rob Ezerman

AaronMiller

Re: ARE ALL 71-D DDO-001/DDR-001 FEV's???

Post by AaronMiller » Wed Jul 14, 2010 6:58 pm

robEzerman wrote:Wiles states the 71-S SB SPL's DDR is from an up-line doubled working hub (p 28-29 in his Ike book) but even knowking the Mint hubbed in both directions it's not easy to picture how the FEV DDR could carry the same DDR as the Type 1 reverse on the SPL. I've just assumed they look the same but must be different. Need an EDS FEV DDR-001 to begin to figure this one out, LOL! Rob
I have an EDS FEV DDR-001 in hand. Would anyone in the Ike Group like to study it to see if it sheds any light on this? Shoot me an email or PM.
Aaron

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Re: ARE ALL 71-D DDO-001/DDR-001 FEV's???

Post by shasta7 » Thu Jul 15, 2010 11:46 am

BrianVaile wrote:According to Roberts, that is exactly the case.....Wexler didn't know about the RDV-006 when he had found the 71-DDO-001 and included it in his 1997 Ike Book. I had included what I thought was a DDO/DDR FEV in my last ANACS shipment. I also included the $10 search and attribute fee for this coin. It came back as a DDO-001 RDV-006 and this comment: "Exact match for plate in Wexler's book, see die gouge between TR. Listed prior to discovery of reverse hub type. Effect on reverse is from die wear."

So, apparently the DDR effect is from die deterioration doubling?

Happy Hunting!
Brian

Is that die gouge between the TR at the bottom? (My gouge is more under the letter T) If so, then I think I have one EDS...
The REV also shows the re-entry vehicle very clearly... I will try to get a picture later today

tz

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Re: ARE ALL 71-D DDO-001/DDR-001 FEV's???

Post by shasta7 » Thu Jul 15, 2010 12:40 pm

Here are a couple pictures of my FEV... (with re-entry vehicle on the rev)

The pictures are not that good... but I tried anyway... :-)
The obv pic shows the area of TR of motto... directly under the T a little to the right looks like
a gouge... in direction going from SW to NE... (I don't think this is the gouge that Roberts stated

tz
Attachments
71-D-FEV-rev.jpg
re-entry vehicle
71-D-FEV-obv.jpg
small die gouge

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Re: ARE ALL 71-D DDO-001/DDR-001 FEV's???

Post by SteveP » Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:48 pm

In the price guide published on the website side of the Ike Group, there is a FEV listed with DDO-002.
This thread talks about DDO-001 (and DDR-001).

Can someone clarify DDO FEVs for me? What's out there?

-Steve Palladino
Steve Palladino

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robEzerman
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Re: ARE ALL 71-D DDO-001/DDR-001 FEV's???

Post by robEzerman » Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:28 am

SteveP, all I can say is that there are other FEV DDO's and I think one other FEV DDR. Several years ago I photographed Lee's examples but lost the photos when my hard drive collapsed before my eyes from a vicious worm. Last time that will happen. The other DDO's are not nearly as dramatic as the "DDO-001", and likewise the other DDR is weaker (I'm not even dead sure the second DDR is a DDR). Back then I knew even less than I think I know now about doubled dies, but the next strongest DDO (presumably our DDO-002) was not MDD (as in the 72-D DDR-001 that has variable rotational MDD, see that chapter).

With all reaspect to John Roberts, IMHO the FEV DDR the Ike Group has recognized as Collectible is not an artifact of die wear. For one thing, the doubling is clearly rotational across USA and very sharp in earlier die states where it's a loupe pick-up. Then again, I am NOT a DD expert, just been studying DD Ikes for about half my coin life.

I'm about to re-photograph Aaron's FEV DDR-001 and will post some photos here by and by.

Andy may be able to tell us more about "FEV DDO-002".

Rob
Now is the time to cherry Ikes. Lots of fruit still on the trees but don't wait too long. Rob Ezerman

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