Isands are different on some FEV's !!!

BillSanders

Isands are different on some FEV's !!!

Post by BillSanders » Wed Jul 22, 2009 10:51 am

Below is a Quote from our Herb Hicks.

Hi Herb,
Can I use this quote from your email in a post about the FEV islands and/or would you like to add something about the appearance of the islands on the FEV in the FEV TOPIC?
(below with Herbs Blessing)
"The FEV's islands are different but I find them a moving target. We have one big mega island down to too many small islands. I wonder if this lack of repeatability had anything to do with the discontinuance of the FEV. If somebody were collecting by island appearances, he could add several FEV's to his collection."
What Say You All?
Thanks,
Bill

AaronMiller

Re: Isands are different on some FEV's !!!

Post by AaronMiller » Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:26 pm

Will have to take a closer look at my stash tonight... does this appear to be related to die state at all, or are they actually in different positions? Could the very small islands disappear due to die treatments or become filled (like die cracks often do)?

I have noticed a variance in detail, but always assumed it was die wear...

User avatar
19Lyds
Posts: 1148
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:06 pm
Contact:

Re: Isands are different on some FEV's !!!

Post by 19Lyds » Wed Jul 22, 2009 6:07 pm

While I agree that some look different than other's, without conclusive evidence it will be difficult to prove. I have been able to count as many as seven islands on some of the strikes.

Image

But when the dies begin to age, most of these (the ones which overlap each other) tend to meld into a single island giving the appearance of 4 islands.

Image
I cannot and will not be held responsible for my typing errors as it appears that there is a bug in the keyboard!
........I've tried on numberous occasions to fix the problme but it just keeps coming back agin and again! -L. Lydston 2008

herbhicks

Re: Isands are different on some FEV's !!!

Post by herbhicks » Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:28 am

This is turning into a most interesting topic. Rob sent me a private note questioning what I said. Lee's post contradicts what I said and Lee is right. I set down and looked at 16 FEV's with a loupe. I found 1 excellent REV and 2 more REV's.
These three showed the mega island divided into 3 islands. (At least that is how it looks to me. Perhaps somebody else would say it was one island with 3 peaks.) Unlike the other (non FEV) types where the islands are definetly separated, these seem to be very close or actually touching each other. Because of this, I would say I could always identify a FEV just by looking at the islands. It seems to be the later die states where we get a solid mega island. (So the islands didn't wash away with time, they built up.) I suspect different dies behaved slightly differently. I find it hard to believe that what I am seeing is a smooth progression from 3 apparent islands to one large island.

herbhicks

Re: Isands are different on some FEV's !!!

Post by herbhicks » Fri Jul 24, 2009 12:59 am

<< It seems to be the later die states where we get a solid mega island. (So the islands didn't wash away with time, they built up.) >>
After further reflection, that does not sound too logical either. I have a new radical theory. But rather than recanting again tommorrow night, I sent it to the other Ike Group members for their review. Stay tuned.

herbhicks

Re: Isands are different on some FEV's !!!

Post by herbhicks » Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:44 am

I give up. I think now that it is die wear and perhaps a little bit of optical illusion that I was seeing.

I did learn one thing of interest. There are 3 incuse touchup lines on the coast of Central America (NE, SE AND SW).
The South West one is the most prominent and sticks out into the Pacific Ocean. They quickly wear away with advancing die life, but probably some little remnant remains.

Now does anubody know of any incuse touchup on the type 3 or relief touchup on the type 2?

I see both relief and incuse touchup on the FEV and type 1.

User avatar
19Lyds
Posts: 1148
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:06 pm
Contact:

Re: Isands are different on some FEV's !!!

Post by 19Lyds » Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:10 pm

I have not Herb but I am surprised that the subject of the apparent doubling on the State of Florida has not been discussed.
I cannot and will not be held responsible for my typing errors as it appears that there is a bug in the keyboard!
........I've tried on numberous occasions to fix the problme but it just keeps coming back agin and again! -L. Lydston 2008

User avatar
robEzerman
Posts: 849
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:26 pm
Contact:

Re: Isands are different on some FEV's !!!

Post by robEzerman » Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:34 am

Lee and Herb, great discussion!

The islands on T1 Ikes can have dramatically different appearances with die wear and die abrading the likely culprits IMHO.

I've left the whole question of incuse and in-relief touch-up details (hub and die touch-up, respectively) for a later date and trust Herb to keep us informed when a question comes up. . . I go nuts just trying to figure out which is what when both seem to be present side-by-side or even superimposed.

But, it does seem possible that in-relief details on a die (ie, incuse on the coin) would wear off the die more quickly than would the die's incuse details. The most obvious example is the loss of the "Shadow" dimple on the '71-'72 high-relief Ike reverses due to die polishing(s).

Lee, there is a quite lot of "false-doubling" on the Earth in T1, T2 and FEV Ikes due to "added art work" (the FEV FL is a prime example). In fact, trying to separate true doubling on a DDR's Earth details from the original doubled etching often gives me a headache, one reason I love it when the islands are doubled. Have to wonder if FG liked the layered and doubled look of so many Earth details, that it was in a sense purposeful rather than simply a product of time pressure? Rob
Now is the time to cherry Ikes. Lots of fruit still on the trees but don't wait too long. Rob Ezerman

herbhicks

Re: Isands are different on some FEV's !!!

Post by herbhicks » Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:57 am

I don't know where the best place to put this is, but will start here.

I was looking at the earth on some type 1's and I see minor incuse touchup on both coasts of upper South America. This is different than the FEV where I saw it on the coasts of Central America. So we have yet another difference between T 1 and FEV.

Like the FEV's it deteriotes quikly with advancing die life. Of course, the jackpot of all incuse touch up is the angry eagle brow line.

On the single Type 3, I looked at, I could not find any incuse touchup.

User avatar
robEzerman
Posts: 849
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:26 pm
Contact:

Re: Isands are different on some FEV's !!!

Post by robEzerman » Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:40 pm

An incuse detail off the field of a coin is different than an incuse detail off an elevated surface: the former, on the die, will be a nubbin of the same size and depth but in relief on the die above the flat face of the die.

Thus the "Shadow Image" is 99% erased with the initial proof field polishing (71-S and 72-S SP's); and, is gone by the time the 72-S SB dies reach about 1/3 of their life span.

The FEV's REV wears out only as the die ages into VLDS, that is, these dies show the REV in advancing die states that are far "older" than any die state in the SB Ikes.

Herb, are the incuse details you see on the 72 Type 1 off the field? Rob
Now is the time to cherry Ikes. Lots of fruit still on the trees but don't wait too long. Rob Ezerman

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest