Falling "E"?

Post pictures, comments and questions about any other recognized or proposed die-state varieties
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1872Hokie
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Re: Falling "E"?

Post by 1872Hokie »

Here is a pic for the mint mark location:
Image

I hope it gets consideration to be included into the DIVa 2.0 catelog. I don't think it's a common variety. Similar to the tiger claw and bear claw that were created by an overzealous grinding wheel, the "Shooting Star" is a naked eye identifiable variety (If you know what you're looking for). Both the gouges for the 6 star and what I am calling a die crack for a lack of better understanding/explaination are visable sans loupe.
I know there are things that have been attributed in the past that will no longer be Red Stickered, but in the interest of moving the variety collection forward, I feel like your naked eye varieties are good candidates for attribution. I'm sure many of you will agree. I am all for what is best for the series. I know nothing will be decided right now about it's inclusion, just trying to make as strong a case as possible. Keep up the good work, and let me know if there is anything else I can help with!
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SteveP
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Re: Falling "E"?

Post by SteveP »

MMP below.

If I can trouble you to have another look:
1) check the lower right serif of the foot of the R in LIBERTY - notched or not?
2) check the upper right serif of the E in ONE, the upper right serif of the T in UNITED, and the lower left serif of the S in STATES - notched or not? If not to all three, check the right serifs of the LL in DOLLAR and lower serif of the C in AMERICA - notched or not?
Attachments
shooting star MMP.jpg
Steve Palladino

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1872Hokie
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Re: Falling "E"?

Post by 1872Hokie »

SteveP wrote:MMP below.

If I can trouble you to have another look:
1) check the lower right serif of the foot of the R in LIBERTY - notched or not?
2) check the upper right serif of the E in ONE, the upper right serif of the T in UNITED, and the lower left serif of the S in STATES - notched or not? If not to all three, check the right serifs of the LL in DOLLAR and lower serif of the C in AMERICA - notched or not?
The R: Did not see anything in the R
Image
The E: Top left of the E (may also be on the top left of the N)
Image
The Ts:
Image
The LL:
Image
The C: Lower end of the C appears split.
Image

Hope these help. Just realized I neglected the S's in States.
Last edited by 1872Hokie on Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:54 am, edited 3 times in total.
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1872Hokie
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Re: Falling "E"?

Post by 1872Hokie »

Was trying to get some better shots, but nothing seems to be producing positive results. Tried different angles, different lighting, and it doesn't seem to be making much of a difference. Added some notes to my previous pictures in red.
If it is there, it is very faint notching. Nothing jumps off the screen at me. The R in LIBERTY does not appear to have any notching. I do see some faint notching in the motto.
On the reverse, the stronges notching that i see is on the bottom right serif of the R in Dollar. Image
Other doubling that I'm seeing is in STATES:
Image
Hope this helps.
Last edited by 1872Hokie on Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:52 am, edited 4 times in total.
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robEzerman
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Re: Falling "E"?

Post by robEzerman »

OK, you guys are taking some excellent photos and looking closely at a number of 71-S SB Ikes. Were some or all 71-S SB Ikes double struck in the press? Rob
Now is the time to cherry Ikes. Lots of fruit still on the trees but don't wait too long. Rob Ezerman

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1872Hokie
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Re: Falling "E"?

Post by 1872Hokie »

Rob, that is an interesting thought. I won't weigh in on this because my knowledge of the minting process is dwarfed by some of the other members, but I think this is an interesting topic to explore.
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SteveP
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Re: Falling "E"?

Post by SteveP »

Bryan sent me his "Shooting Star" - to have a closer look. Besides the obvious marker of the die gouge work that gives the falling e / "shooting star" effect, I have identified a few more. When I matched the TDO to what I call the 1SB DDO family 1 (b manifestation), I thought, I have a bunch of those 1b Ikes laid aside for later catalogue work. I pulled out the 1b Ikes and, bingo, one of them was a "shooting star" :!: Thank you, Bryan.

Shooting Star (will likely enter the second phase release of the DIVa catalogue at 1SB-405)

Obverse markers

- MMP
- TDO, belonging to 1971S SB DDO family 1 (b manifestation)

Reverse markers
- "shooting star" / falling e die gouges
- moon line clash remnant
- DDR, belonging to 1971S SB DDO family 1 (c manifestation)
- die crack through N in UNITED
- parallel die scratches/gouges inside the O of ONE
- parallel die scratches/gouges coming off the right hand side of the base of the F in OF
- die scratch/gouge between the base of O and F in OF

Note:
1) 1971S DDO family 1 has multiple die representatives. One of the more notable is the WDDO-007 seen in 1SB-201 (FS-401 MMP1), and the WDDO-006, among others. The WDDO-007 and WDDO-006 are 1a manifestations. There are multiple dies in the 1b group, bearing the same doubling pattern as the 1a group, but a) clearly TDO, b) a bit less spread, and c) little or no apparent notching in the lower left part of the foot of the R in LIBERTY.
2) Also, 1971S DDR family 1 bears a similar vertical notching in the right side of LL that is present in FEV DDR family 1.
3) I thought I had a pre-clashed, pre-shooting star version in the 1b batch that I have laid aside. It was a DDO family 1b, DDR family 1c die pair without the clashed reverse and shooting star, and the MMP looked pretty close by eyeball. However, the MMP didn't match when I did the formal MMP lines scrutiny. Damn.
Attachments
14174787 shooting star c.jpg
14174787 shooting star d.jpg
14174787 shooting star e.jpg
14174787 shooting star f.jpg
Last edited by SteveP on Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
Steve Palladino

SteveP
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Re: Falling "E"?

Post by SteveP »

Shooting Star (will likely enter the second phase release of the DIVa catalogue at 1SB-405)

Obverse markers
- MMP
- TDO, belonging to 1971S SB DDO family 1 (b manifestation)
Attachments
14174787 shooting star MMP.jpg
14174787 shooting star  DDO family 1c motto.jpg
14174787 shooting star  DDO family 1c OD.jpg
14174787 shooting star  DDO family 1c T.jpg
Last edited by SteveP on Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Steve Palladino

SteveP
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Re: Falling "E"?

Post by SteveP »

Shooting Star (will likely enter the second phase release of the DIVa catalogue at 1SB-405)

Reverse markers
- "shooting star" / falling e die gouges
- moon line clash remnant
- DDR, belonging to 1971S SB DDO family 1 (c manifestation)
- die crack through N in UNITED
- parallel die scratches/gouges inside the O of ONE
- parallel die scratches/gouges coming off the right hand side of the base of the F in OF
- die scratch/gouge between the base of O and F in OF
Attachments
14174787 shooting star c.jpg
14174787 shooting star  DDR family1 LL.jpg
14174787 shooting star  DDR family1 AR.jpg
14174787 shooting star  moon line remnant.jpg
14174787 shooting star die crack N.jpg
Last edited by SteveP on Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
Steve Palladino

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1872Hokie
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Re: Falling "E"?

Post by 1872Hokie »

Awesome Steve. Glad you found it interesting. I have had my eyes open for others, but no luck yet. It is cool to know that you found one in your collection. A gone else have one or more?
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