So, uh...I found this Ike...

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AndyO
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Re: So, uh...I found this Ike...

Post by AndyO »

Herb: there IS ever so slight doubling on the reverse, probably best seen on the islands.

Steve: we haven't pursued the two previous coins to date. I held them in my hands along with some of the other guys in 2007, shame we didn't have time to further scrutinize them.
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1872Hokie
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Re: So, uh...I found this Ike...

Post by 1872Hokie »

Awesome find. It is amazing to find these new varieties. I was watching that auction, but completely missed the type 1 rev.
Eyes have now been opened, hopefully more will be found along with some more of the history behind this pairing.
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AndyO
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Re: So, uh...I found this Ike...

Post by AndyO »

You'll have to bear with these, it was very difficult getting a remotely decent shot through the mint plastic, compounded by haze on the fields and shinny reflections on the relief of the letters.
NPP 1.jpg
NPP 2.jpg
NPP 3.jpg
NPP 4.jpg
NPP 5.jpg
NPP 6.jpg
NPP 7.jpg
NPP 8.jpg
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robEzerman
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Re: So, uh...I found this Ike...

Post by robEzerman »

Andy, assuming FS-103 is indeed the WDDO-008, your photos seem to indicate the obverse may be a member of the -008 Family rather than the -008 itself.

Thanks to the Ike Group we have Chapter 15 to turn to with pretty decent photos of a WDDO-010 and a previously not reported additional member of the -008 Family. Tom K has handled numerous other newly reported members of the "DDO-008 Family" and the difficulty teasing out their differences not due to die state, MDD or DSSD is one of the reasons, I suspect, Tom K and Wexler and even Wiles are leaning toward an Ike DD catalog organized by presumed upline doubled working hubs whenever possible.

But thanks to Wexler's, et al ARED we have some good photos of DDO-008, -009, -010 and -011, the earliest known members of the -008 Family and all DDO's with sufficiently distinctly different doubling that they can stand on their own as specific doubled dies IMHO.

Wiles' out of print "CONECA Attribution Guide. . ." has six photos of his DDO-3 which CPG refers to on its FS-103 half page spread.

The bottom line, IMHO, is we do not know what "FS-103" really means other than that Ike is probably in the -008 Family ("FS-103 Family"). Attributing the FS-103 on a raw coin is tricky business, especially since the -008 is so very rare compared to the -009 and -010.

Andy, maybe pull out your Wexler ARED, Wiles' book, CPG and our V2's Chapter 15 and see if your obverse seems identical to Wexler's DDO-008 and Wiles' DDO-3 (same as -003), taking into account how similar other members of the -008 Family can look based on our Chapter 15?

Rob
Now is the time to cherry Ikes. Lots of fruit still on the trees but don't wait too long. Rob Ezerman

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Re: So, uh...I found this Ike...

Post by 19Lyds »

I don't know about anybody else but I'm not seeing an FS-103 from those photo's Andy.
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Re: So, uh...I found this Ike...

Post by SteveP »

Lee: they are not great photos, but, respectfully, the IGWT does look like the FS-103 I have in my hand.

Andy: can you post some pics of the lower left of Ike's neck, just above level with the WE. I see three small possible die gouges on the one that I'm looking at.
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Re: So, uh...I found this Ike...

Post by 19Lyds »

SteveP wrote:Lee: they are not great photos, but, respectfully, the IGWT does look like the FS-103 I have in my hand.

Andy: can you post some pics of the lower left of Ike's neck, just above level with the WE. I see three small possible die gouges on the one that I'm looking at.
Then might I submit that its possible you do not have an FS-103 in hand but a coin labeled as an FS-103 as the FS-103 is commonly misattributed.
I cannot and will not be held responsible for my typing errors as it appears that there is a bug in the keyboard!
........I've tried on numberous occasions to fix the problme but it just keeps coming back agin and again! -L. Lydston 2008

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Re: So, uh...I found this Ike...

Post by AndyO »

Unfortunately, I can't for the next few weeks.

Guys, I felt the coin had much more crisp notching/separation in hand like the FS-103, but with a little more die wear. However, I can fully understand why Lee, Rob, or anyone would say 009, 010, or 011 from those pictures. Rob, I would agree with the thinking of Tom and yourself about the 008 family; 9, 10, and 11 are the same. We certainly may find that it is a 9/10/11 coin. It's always been my opinion as well that 008 was the first so to speak, with the other three coming from the same upline roots. The position of the doubling is just to much of a match for all four in my mind to be any other way.

With the slight reverse doubling, it could very well match Wiles example that he cataloged in 1998. In fact, all four of the examples could be the same obverse and reverse pairing. One would think the odds are heavily in that favor.

I did not bother to go any further trying to nail down DDO or DDR, as that hasn't been my primary interest. I know some of you live and breathe for those, but I've never had an enormous amount of interest unless they are naked eye. I've been a little preoccupied with the reverse pairing and provenance of the box. The actual definite DDO/DDR is nothing more than a side show for me at this point to be fully honest; a nice tidbit of information, but basically a moot point in the grand scheme (for me).

It's probably a fair statement Rob that no one knows for sure in TPG land what FS-103 means. In other words, there could very well be 9/10/11 coins with FS-103 labels. And in the end, maybe that's not going to be wrong. Who knows.

So if it turns out to be an FS-103: great. If it turns out to be a DDO-009: great. If it turns out to be a FS-87653/DDO-7635: great.

HEY: Did anyone happen to notice the reverse on this thing.... Did I mention I've got this box.....

Seriously, I'd love for us to uncover the origin of the box.
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Re: So, uh...I found this Ike...

Post by SteveP »

19Lyds wrote:
SteveP wrote:Lee: they are not great photos, but, respectfully, the IGWT does look like the FS-103 I have in my hand.

Andy: can you post some pics of the lower left of Ike's neck, just above level with the WE. I see three small possible die gouges on the one that I'm looking at.
Then might I submit that its possible you do not have an FS-103 in hand but a coin labeled as an FS-103 as the FS-103 is commonly misattributed.
1) I said "like". Of course, as Rob suggests, the entire family looks similar.
2) The coin that I hold has the TDR - a true WDDO-008. I'm comfortable that it is a FS-103.

Back to Andy's coin: I'm not aware of published die markers for the separate dies of the -008 family. I'm offering that the MM placement appears similar to the FS-103 that I hold, and that there could be obverse die markers on the Ike's neck that could help identify Andy's obverse.
Steve Palladino

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Re: So, uh...I found this Ike...

Post by AndyO »

Mine does have tripling, as seen in the #5 picture. Unfortunately, the good notch separation detail is all but washed out from the glare of the plastic. I had that shot and one other at really hard angles to try and capture that feature.

Guys, don't get hung up on the DDO of this thing. We'll get it pegged to one or the other in due time. Let's hear some more speculation on the box origins. Remember, it's constructed identically to a regular brown box, so I think we're safe to say it's genuine mint stuff.

What was it's purpose?

I saw the PCGS board geniuses have it pegged to a one liner form the mint website time line in July 1971. I really have doubts it's that simple, I mean , what are the chances? It's the first seen of it's kind - how many do we think were made after only seeing it 40 years later?
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