Pertty sure Ive found a `71-S Prototype Silver Ike....

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rtc535
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Pertty sure Ive found a `71-S Prototype Silver Ike....

Post by rtc535 »

Pretty sure another Prototype '71-S Found.....

Oh my, well, it’s finally time to let this out of the bag, literally. There have been alot of ups and downs with this coin for me, mostly for the longest time not even knowing what it was. I showed to a few people, none of which had any clue how to categorize, grade or know what it is. I’ll give the info in a time line, as it's most still fresh in my mind.

With that said, the biggest part of this find is this statement I came up almost immediately after I finally discovered what it really was:

Wow, this is a case of seller not knowing what he had and DUMB luck on the buyer’s part.

April 2013
Ill start be saying I started buying Ikes, Franklins and early Kennedy half’s ~ 6months earlier. Mostly from watching CoinVault and Art & Coin TV's Rick Tomaska. From there I’ve been very interested in these early coins and especially the very rare Kennedy's of 1964 proofs, 1970-D MS's and 1998-S Specials.
In buying these coins that I thought looked good to me, especially the '71-S Blue Ikes on Ebay, I came across this auction that had what I though and exceptional cleanness and finish for BU strike. So I initially put a ~$14 bid which was a top bid. The auction was 7 day no reserve auction. During the next couple of days, I was outbid. When the end day rolled around, I was there at the very end, in the last couple of minutes waiting to see how the bidding would go. Well, there were a couple of bids if memory serves, and I was willing to go as high as $50, since I believed it looked MS67 to possible MS68, which we all know is very rare for '71-S Blue Ikes. With ~30s left I dropped a $22 bid. Well that held and the auction ended for $21.88!!!!!!!

When I received the coin, I couldn't believe what I was seeing, I really couldn't tell what it was, and it didn't look like any of the other '71-S Blue Ike's I had. I just couldn't get a handle on its pedigree. I knew it was different, but I just was unable to get to a grade or category. It’s had fine lines in the fields and a finish that through me for a complete loop. Since it came in poly flip, I gloved up and as I do with all my coins, placed in an AirTight plastic capsule and dropped in into my Ike tube holder. There it sat for ~week or two.

Since my boss and I share a coin interest, I took it into work to show him after ~2weeks of it just sitting. Upon inspection under the lab microscope, it was his opinion it was a fake. Mmmm, I wasn't pleased with that and definitely not ready to give up on just yet, not knowing what it was. So back in the tube it went.

Late May 2013
Well, as always, the Ike just sat in the tube as we all know; life gets in the way...! One evening, I get the monthly NGC newsletter with a new Ike variety just discovered. Oh, really, so I go check it out, well, that variety isn't what I have, although it had some similar characteristics. I even had my wife look at the info at NGC. She couldn't tell either. But, that sparked my interest in the coin again. So it took it to two shops in my area. Well, that was a bust. No one in those shops could figure it out either. The one pulled a number of books to look at, but to no avail. He, like my boss, could only think it was a fake, as the fine polish lines made him think fake all the way. Wow, that’s 2 now telling me it’s a fake coin. At least I didn't feel that bad, as I only paid $22 buck for it! My hope in the coin was fading fast. So, back in the tube it went for another 2 months.

Late July 2013
Well, the Ike wasn't in my mind at all, as almost believing it was a fake coin, I really just mostly forgot about it. I was looking at '70-D PL Kennedys on EBay, when I said to myself, I should do a Google search on '70-D PL to see if there’s any to buy (then, NGC has only 22 total graded, and I own 7 of them, it’s my goal to own at many of those as possible). In the Google search where all the normal crap, but upon page 3 of the search was obscure link to the Ike group forum and a reference to a "Prototype 71-S Ike". Mmmmm, I should look at that, hit the link, and I end up at the forum to Lee's thread on the initial find of prototype Ike. Ok, that’s interesting, so I go to the report on the home page and click the "The Lydston and Chatham 1971-S Prototype Ikes". All of a sudden after reading the first 5 pages - HOLY SHIT, CAN THIS BE IT!!!!!. Being at work, I didn't have the coin in hand, so where can I find pics of my coin. My heart was really starting to get up in beats per minute....where can I get some pics...then it dawned on me, I have the Ebay auction emails in my Deleted folder with the auction pics. I never delete emails; I just let them set in the delete folder. Searching back into the emails, there they are. So I copy the pics into a folder and open them up and compare them to the pics in the report. OH MY, its pretty clear these are the same coins. My heart rate is pretty high now, and I said to myself, this is what scratching off a large winning lottery ticket must feel like. It was very exciting. I immediately had my boss look at, and his mind changed very quickly that this was the coin, but don't get too excited just yet he says.
All of a sudden it hit me; I have a very valuable coin just sitting in a tube at home. All I wanted to do was leave and secure that puppy and really see if it's the real deal. The rest of the day went very slow as I make this discovery @ ~10:30AM. I couldn't get home fast enough. When I get there, I rush in and pull it out. Upon further inspection for the next hour it’s very clear there the same coin from the prototype report. I spent the rest of the night reading the report a number of times while drinking some good wine. That’s when I came up with the "what dumb fu#*ing luck, the seller had no idea what he had. I could have been outbid also, Oh My, what a convergence of coincidence. I may have gotten rid of it thinking it was a fake also. All the scenarios ran through my head for the next week. All my wife could say was, just relax for while, don’t do anything rash yet.
Since there was the Chatham prototype, over the next week I even emailed the seller to ask again if this Ike came from a Blue envelope cellophane. He emailed back that he was 100% sure that the Ike I received is a Blue Ike! At this point I also saved the Ebay auction emails for posterity. I still have not informed the Ebay seller of the coin what the pedigree of this Ike is!

So, I’ve been just sitting on the coin for ~6 months just letting it simmer. The biggest question I have about the whole thing is how the "prototype" coins ended up in Blue envelope cellophane????????????? I mean, we all know that the '71-S silver BU Ike's are the most beat-up coins, as they look; as Rick Tomaska says "they look as if a Sherman tank ran over them". So it’s obvious these coins didn't go into the bins, then dumped into 1000 coin bags to be delivered to the packaging facility, only to be re-dumbed in bins for the packaging machines! They would have bag marks all over them, like most '71-S BU silver coins. Now, mine has a pretty good rim gouge on Ike's right upper neck, so at some point another Ike fell on it from a decent height. But all these Ike's are completely devoid of bag marks! So, did someone who didn't know what they were, was cleaning a desk and found a small box of these Ike's, looked at them and said, "these look like some BU silver Ike's, here John (maybe a worker at the mint), run these over to the packaging facility and get them run through"????? That would explain the lack of bag marks on the coin and how prototypes, which there where probably alot more of but destroyed, got in Blue packaging?! It's still just boggling my mind how prototypes got into the Blue cellophane? Or, I guess it could be something more sinister, like a employee putting them into the packaging facility behind managements back? I don't of any other coin that had early prototypes actually end up in real packaging and sent out to customers?

Anyway, I’m not sure what I’m going to do with the coin? I’m going to start checking around to see what it may be worth! I saw that the presentation Ike on Heritage Auctions for the Long Beach show was $9k and change. I believe this to be worth that, maybe more, but could be less also? Any speculation?

I’ve enclosed the Ebay pics, there pretty good, but not great. I’ll try to get some better ones later. They do show it’s pretty clear that this is a Prototype `71-S Ike. Not sure if I need to send this into the experts here to verification of its pedigree? Maybe some of the others here may differ?

Well, that’s enough for now. Please make comments as I’m always open to what others think.

Thanks,
RussC
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SteveP
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Re: Pertty sure Ive found a `71-S Prototype Silver Ike....

Post by SteveP »

:shock: Congratulations :!: :!: :!:
In the Google search where all the normal crap, but upon page 3 of the search was obscure link to the Ike group forum and a reference to a "Prototype 71-S Ike". Mmmmm, I should look at that, hit the link, and I end up at the forum to Lee's thread on the initial find of prototype Ike. Ok, that’s interesting, so I go to the report on the home page and click the "The Lydston and Chatham 1971-S Prototype Ikes". All of a sudden after reading the first 5 pages - HOLY SHIT, CAN THIS BE IT!!!!!. Being at work,
a) glad to hear that the Ike Group website and forum was of help. (and not surprising)
b) disclaimer: please check your work policy manual before accessing the Ike Group website and forum while at work*

*NOT ;)
Steve Palladino

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AndyO
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Re: Pertty sure Ive found a `71-S Prototype Silver Ike....

Post by AndyO »

Huh. How about that. Sure looks like one. Can you give us a few more close-ups of the key areas. Check the article out and see if you can match up some more pick-up points.

As far as demand/value, well, good question. I would say the value now is actually a little higher than before with the discovery of this one. Having found another in the wild now, this gives collectors hope that perhaps there are more out there; in other words, demand is increased because collectors have a a higher belief that they can find one. Now, this is only the third of these prototypes known publicly, so it's not a high number, but, if another 1 or 2 or 3 become public, I would think the value will really take off. Regardless, I think we can all safely presume that there are not many of these out there.
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19Lyds
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Re: Pertty sure Ive found a `71-S Prototype Silver Ike....

Post by 19Lyds »

Winner Winner Chicken Dinner! Woo Hoo!


From what I can see, its ODV-010 and it looks like RDV-007.

You really need to get this off to James Wiles as soon as possible.
I cannot and will not be held responsible for my typing errors as it appears that there is a bug in the keyboard!
........I've tried on numberous occasions to fix the problme but it just keeps coming back agin and again! -L. Lydston 2008

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Re: Pertty sure Ive found a `71-S Prototype Silver Ike....

Post by 19Lyds »

Those are the eBay pictures???

Well f^&k me!


As for them being Blue Pack IKE's. It's anybodies guess and until some real documentation can be found, we'll just never know.

For SURE THOUGH, these IKE's have never been in a bag.

Now for the lines".

These are actually die polishing lines and, to me at least, point back to the 1964 SMS Coins as those coins exhibit the exact same lines.

Now, one step further. Back in the August 5th, 2013 edition of Coin World, there was an article regarding the fact that coins which had been sent to the Smithsonian for the National Collection were found, during a cataloging exercise, to all be of high quality with special finishes. To quote the article:

"The special coins in the NNC are easily recognized as being different from coins being struck for circulation in the years 1950 to 1979. The coins in this discovery, however, fall neither into the category of Proof strikes intended for collectors nor "business" strikes intended for circulation."

The ONLY drawback to the above is that the Prototype IKE's, have different Obverse and Reverse Design Varieties. Specifically, 2 have ODV-010/RDV-007 and 1 with ODV-011/RDV-007. None of the 3 conform to the design varieties of 1971 but then, I don't think that the 1964 SMS Kennedy does either.

So, until better documentation or at the very minimum "some" documentation is made available, all we can do is speculate.

BTW, the 1971-D pictures on the Coin World Article appears to have a standard design of ODV-001/RDV-001 (CONECA).

Kennedy 1968-D NNC Collection Coin World Cover-01.jpg
I cannot and will not be held responsible for my typing errors as it appears that there is a bug in the keyboard!
........I've tried on numberous occasions to fix the problme but it just keeps coming back agin and again! -L. Lydston 2008

coinkat
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Re: Pertty sure Ive found a `71-S Prototype Silver Ike....

Post by coinkat »

Congrats... an amazing find and story. It really does make one wonder whether others made it into blue packs-

I think there is a likelihood.

miedbe7
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Re: Pertty sure Ive found a `71-S Prototype Silver Ike....

Post by miedbe7 »

I joined a few weeks ago to post about the 5 BU to Gem March release Type 2s that I cherry-picked off eBay for about $70. Maybe even boast about the OAK pl or the s/s 501s I've snagged over the past couple months. BUT... I think I'll have to wait a couple of months to bust out that story!! LOL!!

However, the sheer craziness, magnitude, (insert another appropriate word here) of this find compelled me to post finally just to say - Congratulations and what a find!! - even if I'm a bit jealous ;)

PS - For everyone on the forum, I'll introduce myself in the future. I just HAD to post on this. WOW!!

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Re: Pertty sure Ive found a `71-S Prototype Silver Ike....

Post by HerbHicks »

Welcome miedbe7 and rtc535!

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Re: Pertty sure Ive found a `71-S Prototype Silver Ike....

Post by ilikeikes »

CONGRATS!!!!! :) ...unreal story...MORE unreal the regulars missed this....betcha EVERYBODY is looking at blue pack listings now!
Calvin
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