1971S-FS-501 DIVa listing question

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jay4202472000
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1971S-FS-501 DIVa listing question

Post by jay4202472000 »

How often is the DIVa listings updated?

I'm asking because I had been trying to pick an example of 1971S-FS-501, and I used the 2 parallel die gouges as my main PUP. I finally found one and snatched it up. When I got it I checked it with DIVa. It is without a doubt the die shown as FS-501/1SB-501.

I went to Variety Vista and Wexler to get the cross reference numbers to add to my spreadsheet and it does not match RPM-001 (CONECA's FS-501) or WRPM-003 (Wexler's FS-501).

The coin shown in the DIVa files actually matches RPM-002, WRPM-004, and Tom K's old IDDD-RPM-4.

Here are the links:
http://doubleddie.com/1217040.html
http://varietyvista.com/13%20Eisenhower ... RPM002.htm
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jay4202472000
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Re: 1971S-FS-501 DIVa listing question

Post by jay4202472000 »

I would really love to become a helpful, active member here, but it doesn't look like much activity goes on. No one ever addressed my questions about the 1971S-FS-106 either. I sure wish Tom K was still around.

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AndyO
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Re: 1971S-FS-501 DIVa listing question

Post by AndyO »

Patience. No one is working on Ikes here at the present time, and haven't for the last 2+ years. Brian has moved on to other things, and I've been busy with continuing education, amongst career moves. Steve exited as well for other pursuits during his retirement. What's more, quite frankly, is that there is simply little to no interest in what is a continually shrinking hobby overall. Be glad the yearly fees continue to be paid to keep the site open....

Let's not forget others may chime in as well, but, as you have probably surmised, the lack of that is likely due to what I just mentioned above.

As far as the FS-501, we did extensive work on it about 10 years ago. I would caution you about holding Wexler and Wiles as the gospel when it comes to Ike varieties (and other coins). There is indeed another similar RPM, and I know Brian has one in his possession.
Authorized CAC and QA dealer

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jay4202472000
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Re: 1971S-FS-501 DIVa listing question

Post by jay4202472000 »

Thanks for responding Andy. I don't want to be argumentative, but the DIVa listing is not the FD-501. There is a much wider spread on the FS-501. Also, it's not Wiles and Wexler only. It was Tom K (RIP), the CPG, and NGC all list it as RPM-001. NGC even has a VP-001 number for RPM-002. The links are all there above. It's fairly easy to see.
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SteveP
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Re: 1971S-FS-501 DIVa listing question

Post by SteveP »

Having 22 PSCG-holdered FS-501 coins on hand for examination:

19 have markers matching DIVa 1SB-501 - the photos and markers listed for CONECA RPM-002 and Wexler WRPM-004 best match DIVa 1SB-501
1 has markers matching CONECA RPM-001, Wexler WRPM-003
2 have markers and RPM that are entirely different from either of the two above

In their listings, Wexler WRPM-003 = Kalantzis IDDD-RPM-3 = Bordner BRPM-003 = CONECA RPM-001 = Cherrypickers FS-501

In their listings, Wexler, Kalantzis, Wiles provide, IMO, scant marker evidence for Wexler WRPM-003, Kalantzis IDDD-RPM-3, CONECA RPM-001, respectively. Fivaz&Stanton provide no marker evidence, and only a close-up of the MM.
- Kalantzis mentions a die gouge on the left upper side of the second 1 in the date. Actually both CONECA RPM-001 and CONECA RPM -002 have the same maker - it is likely upline sourced and not a true die marker.
- all fail to do MM placement nor provide photos with MM placement lines, which would certainly help matters
- all fail to identify the small die crack running transversely through the top of the R in LIBERTY in VEDS to EDS (perhaps a reason that the CONECA RPM-001 is more scarce than the CONECA RPM-002, and perhaps why Wiles only identified markers for die stage A)

In "The Eisenhower Dollar, Volume 2, The Collectible Ike Varieties - Fact, Photos and Theories" (2011), Ezerman et al write, " The Original FS-501 S/S RPM has a naked-eye reflective die marker: two distinct and reflective die gouges....The two die gouges, in relief, are stacked over the first 1 of the date...." (bold added for emphasis)

Both CONECA RPM-001 and RPM-002 RPMs are described and appear northwest. Without definitive and/or extensive markers, and without MM placement lines, these two would be hard to distinguish by someone not looking at them each regularly - a lot. Consequently, CONECA RPM-002 always ends up attributed and holdered as a FS-501 by TPG.

Yes you are correct to nitpick that out listed DIVa 1SB-501 is a CONECA RPM-002. However, we do not state a cross of DIVa 1SB-501 to CONECA RPM-001 in our listing. In our listing ( https://www.ikegroup.info/DIVA%20listin ... SB-501.pdf ), we cross it as "aka FS-501" - that's it. And guess what? Rob wrote that the original FS-501 has the die markers that we depict in our listing, and TPG most commonly attribute/holder FS-501 Ikes that bear the same markers that we depict in our listing. We are comfortable standing by out listing. We are comfortable that coins bearing the markers that we depict will get attributed/holdered as FS-501.

This is not to say that a CONECA RPM-001 will not or should not get attributed/holdered as a FS-501. Heck, I have one in front of me, in a PCGS holder, attributed as a FS-501. Heck, two different-die 1SB peg legs (1SB-201 and 1SB-202) are routinely attributed/holdered as a FS-401, and occasionally the 1SB-601 stove pipe makes into a FS-401 holder.

ps- I have in hand 5 different 1SB RPMs.
Steve Palladino

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