Brown Box Peg Legs?

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1872Hokie
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Brown Box Peg Legs?

Post by 1872Hokie »

Just got some purchases in the mail this afternoon and among them are three 71-S Brown Boxes, still in their mint boxes. Two of the Three are Peg Leg while the third has the Serif R. I am a bit sleep deprived right now due to a newborn, so what am I looking at here? Maybe I'm looking at nothing special, but I had to do a double take when the R's were different. I haven't been able to get a loupe out to look for doubling, but is the Peg Leg by itself a key to anything?
Thanks for your help, sorry if it is a stupid question, but I had a free moment (no crying baby boy) and wanted to ask you guys. Thanks!
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Re: Brown Box Peg Legs?

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On the surface, you have nothing special. There were two 71S proof designs: one with a normal serif R, and another without - a design peg leg. The story behind them is interesting WRT the early evolution of the Ike.

However, if you look at the coins closer, you might find something:
- check the serif-R reverse for the nightcrawler. You'd having something there.
- check all of them for DDO/DDR, TDO/TDR. While there are many double dies that are traced back to a working hub (or higher), some of them are not, and thus more valuable.
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1872Hokie
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Re: Brown Box Peg Legs?

Post by 1872Hokie »

Thanks Steve. I will be sure to look for those.
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Re: Brown Box Peg Legs?

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<<On the surface, you have nothing special. There were two 71S proof designs: one with a normal serif R, and another without - a design peg leg. The story behind them is interesting WRT the early evolution of the Ike.>>

I am not sure I would call the R with a serif a normal serif. Look at it with a magnifier. It is a crude hand engraved add on.

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Re: Brown Box Peg Legs?

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HerbHicks wrote:<<On the surface, you have nothing special. There were two 71S proof designs: one with a normal serif R, and another without - a design peg leg. The story behind them is interesting WRT the early evolution of the Ike.>>

I am not sure I would call the R with a serif a normal serif. Look at it with a magnifier. It is a crude hand engraved add on.
Thank you for adding that. I stand corrected. As I said, "The story behind them is interesting WRT the early evolution of the Ike."
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Re: Brown Box Peg Legs?

Post by 1872Hokie »

I did notice the Serif R looking like an afterthought.
Also, no nightcrawlers. I still have a few more coming in, and I have to sit down and look for doubling.
Since there are two distinct R's, do you ever see this being accecpted as a variety?
Thanks for the help. The hunt continues...
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Re: Brown Box Peg Legs?

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1872Hokie wrote:Since there are two distinct R's, do you ever see this being accepted as a variety?
A Type 1 and Type 2 designation for 1971S SP makes sense to me, but I'm not sure how much sense it makes to others, particularly the powers that make these changes. So, not likely in the foreseeable future.

....Sorta like the movement to get the FEV elevated to major variety status, hopefully (IMO) with a Type 1 designation (with the current non-FEV 1971D becoming the Type 2).
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Re: Brown Box Peg Legs?

Post by 1872Hokie »

SteveP wrote:
1872Hokie wrote:Since there are two distinct R's, do you ever see this being accepted as a variety?
A Type 1 and Type 2 designation for 1971S SP makes sense to me, but I'm not sure how much sense it makes to others, particularly the powers that make these changes. So, not likely in the foreseeable future.

....Sorta like the movement to get the FEV elevated to major variety status, hopefully (IMO) with a Type 1 designation (with the current non-FEV 1971D becoming the Type 2).
My thoughts exactly, and i'm definately 100% with you on the FEV, but change can come slow with these things.
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Re: Brown Box Peg Legs?

Post by robEzerman »

Dang! You guys are on top of things!

For me, it's fascinating to look at the photo in V2 (Chapter 8, Page 1) that shows the smooth spread of fade in the peg leg on the 71-S proof, an unanticipated consequence of the low relief of the original flared peg leg design (and it is flared, check it out). This was a major design flaw on Gasparro's part (he had promised "perfect" proofs in part to justify their $10 price).

The mint stopped production of the peg leg design after a couple of months, modified a master die by adding the hasty-looking "Funny Foot", creating the Design Variety most now call the "Serif-R" Variety though I much prefer the colorful and memorable "Funny Foot". The mintages of both are laid out in V2 but roughly 1/3 are Peg Legs and 2/3's are Funny Foot, hence no premium at present, except I'll pay a premium for heavily faded peg legs and for those that show no fade, each is around 5-10% of peg leg production.

At any rate, Gasparro was no dummy so his initial flat-flared peg leg design never appeared again. All subsequent design Peg Legs were more robust, fatter and in higher relief, starting with both 1972-S silver Ikes.

But now look at the 71-S SB (SB = Silver Business strike, specimen Ike, Blue Ike) FS-401 (Wiles' DDO-009) with its nicely doubled obverse Chapter 10 in V2), which Wiles nicknamed the "Fading peg leg". The "fade" appearance exactly mimicks the fade one sees mid-way in the spread of fade on the 71-S proof peg leg, hence my mud on the wall theory that Gasparo designed the 401 as a cover-up of his flawed 71-S proof peg leg design. If you have access to several 71-S SB peg leg Ikes, however, you will notice that almost half have a different peg leg design similar to that on a non-faded 71-S peg leg proof and this obverse is not doubled.

And you may remember that this non-fading 71-S SB peg leg Ike has two reverses, one nicely doubled, the other not.

All this can confuse even seriously deranged Ike nuts so I'm pushing for a new designation for the 71-S SB Design Peg Leg Ikes, one based on their in-common tapered left arms of Y and T of LIBERTY (a naked eye marker) and the naked eye reflective "trough" between the legs of the R. I like "Trough-R Variety, doubled obverse" and "Trough-R Variety not-doubled obverse" to capture both descriptively. Of course, of course, a catalog number will have to be assigned. . . Rob
Now is the time to cherry Ikes. Lots of fruit still on the trees but don't wait too long. Rob Ezerman

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Re: Brown Box Peg Legs?

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robEzerman wrote:And you may remember that this non-fading 71-S SB peg leg Ike has two reverses, one nicely doubled, the other not.

All this can confuse even seriously deranged Ike nuts so I'm pushing for a new designation for the 71-S SB Design Peg Leg Ikes, one based on their in-common tapered left arms of Y and T of LIBERTY (a naked eye marker) and the naked eye reflective "trough" between the legs of the R. I like "Trough-R Variety, doubled obverse" and "Trough-R Variety not-doubled obverse" to capture both descriptively. Of course, of course, a catalog number will have to be assigned. . . Rob
Rob,
I think the "not-doubled" reverse is actually doubled. All of the FS-401 examples that I have are either a WDDO-007, or the alternate, more subtle DDO of the obverse motto. I'm going to send those to TomK and then anyone in the Ike gropu that wish to have a look, if he confirms what I think that I'm seeing.

If it pans out, then the FS-401 is assoc with two different DDOs - FS-401 a and b if you will. I'm not sure which of the two obverses that DDR is married to, so that could be c (and possibly d if the DDR is shown to be assoc with both of the obverses).
Last edited by SteveP on Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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