So, uh...I found this Ike...

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tko-5

Re: So, uh...I found this Ike...

Post by tko-5 »

Hi Guys,

After looking at your pictures, and they are good enough, it is NOT a 103, I did some checking, the reverse is a low relief proofed die, or better said type 1 reverse, I must recheck the mint docs for evidence of this, if any exist, a very cheap way to try and look good, these coins were probably handed out to the President and vice president and the CREW, is why you are realizing so many, although your not sure, but it smells just like what has happened, in the past, hand out of coins to congress man and the like, I will go out on a limb, most likely 50 coins made maybe 100, and handed out, and to the CREW - anyone close to the President at the time.

I feel this reverse may be the reason for the type 2 reverse coming to perdition, the type 1 failed.
Time will tell.

Rob has tried and done a very good job explaining that it may be from hub 8, and Andy it does not look like the coin Obverse was made from a hub 8 hub, however, there is a hub 6 that is very close to hub 8, small differences, and can pass for a hub 8 die but in fact is from hub 6, they look close, the give away for hub 6 is the foot of the first one in date is doubled on the front and back serif on the bottom of the foot, there are more details, but the foot is easy eye shot to spot, if the back of the first one - bottom right serif is split, it is not from hub 8. also 103 is not tripled.

Andy, great coin, and great tripling, when all is done I would like to attribute it for you, maybe when you visit Rob we can get together and do that.

Tom
Last edited by tko-5 on Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: So, uh...I found this Ike...

Post by AndyO »

Thank you for that analysis Tom. You can trust we'll be sure to get the actual obverse DDO pegged when the dust settles from the reverse investigating.

I too suspect now that the total number of these boxes out there is perhaps maybe 100 at most - and maybe much lower since these boxes are that scarce. I would also agree that they are probably a hand out from the President's office to preferred members of government.

Perhaps a more pressing question is "when"? I think that would tell us a little more about the obverse/reverse pairing. I would assume it was early in the game.

Anyone else have thoughts? More over, anyone else have ideas on where or with whom to start further research? It would be nice if there were mint records to start with, but I suspect they are long gone, let alone do we know/have anyone with that level of connection.
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Re: So, uh...I found this Ike...

Post by BrianVaile »

A GREAT find indeed! :D

Key on the 103 is to triangulate the MM-placement and compare, since all of that "family" that Rob mentioned have very similar doubling.

If the MM-placement matches exactly, then it is a done deal (IMHO)...other differences might just be from a different die state, or come from after a few "re-treatments".

Wish I still had mine in-hand to compare....but at least I know it has a good home! ;)

Happy Hunting!
Brian

tko-5

Re: So, uh...I found this Ike...

Post by tko-5 »

Presidential hand-outs have been going on for ever, my sister years back wanted an investment coin, she asked me to help her, one coin I was looking at was an 1880 O Morgan DMPL 63, for those of you that know the Morgan series the 1880 O has a story behind them, and making proof likes scarce and dmpl rare, a few other coins were looked at, but I finally settled on an 1896 test pattern nickel, 1896 was the last year Pattern coins are aloud to be owned by collectors, unless things changed since, they too were handed out, this was the wooden nickel we hear about as a joke, but was the joke real, it was, that test pattern was for what metal the nickel from 1896 and on would be made of, I think there were six made, five different metals and I think one wooden nickel, I just cant remember anymore, my brain, well anyway, back in those olden days, the gate keeper would let the congress men keep the coins given them to decide witch coin they liked as an incentive to pick the one they had in hand, some even said they lost there coin, and the gate keeper would say, OK I understand, and off went another pattern coin, my sisters coin was the one made of nickel and as we now know the mint went with nickel, the obverse of that coin had a big number 5 on the obverse, all pattern coins are marked as such on thee coin by the mint, with a die chip looking but not a chit at all, it is a marker for that die, the reverse had the same reverse as the V nickel had.

Since your early produced die has a type 1 reverse it becomes a transitional reverse die that failed, if you or PCGS tries to label it as a pattern it will be taken away from you, if the FBI thinks you should not have it just like the 1913 nickel, they will take it, I do not feel this is the issue here.

The obverse die die has been abraded more then any of the 103 I have seen, not many, so the stage is later, but yet I see doubling and tripling, can you show us a good picture of the split serif of the 9 and another with MM placement and 7 and the FG if possible.

Tom

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Re: So, uh...I found this Ike...

Post by AndyO »

Tom, as I stated earlier, I unfortunately can't get any more pictures for the next few weeks. But, I'll be glad to when the smoke settles.
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Re: So, uh...I found this Ike...

Post by 1872Hokie »

During your research did you guys come across this:
http://www.hcaauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=31223
Not sure if it ties back to your Ike or not, but I don't think it would be too far of a stretch to believe that Nixon could have had a group of these at his disposal to give out as he saw fit. Thought it was interesting and on subject.

Andy, i think this ties in nicely with your theory, and i would suggest that Nixon commissioned the special brown boxes, maybe in very limited numbers, and gave them out. Those persons not knowing what they had, or caring, would have probably not thought twice about the packaging with the autopen signature. Maybe the packaging was discarded or damaged over time. I believe there are more out there, but I doubt there are many. They could be locked away in some senators vault next to the 1964-D Peace Dollar. Maybe it isn't related, but there is a date, August 6th, 1971.
Last edited by 1872Hokie on Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: So, uh...I found this Ike...

Post by SteveP »

1872Hokie wrote:During your research did you guys come across this:
http://www.hcaauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=31223
Not sure if it ties back to your Ike or not, but I don't think it would be too far of a stretch to believe that Nixon could have had a group of these at his disposal to give out as he saw fit. Thought it was interesting and on subject.
Nice. Date August 6, 1971. That puts the presentation at around July 31,197, which also was the first time astronauts drove on the moon.

Edit: I stand corrected. Information on the US Mint website confirms July 27 as the presentation date: "(July, 27)
President Nixon presents the first proof Eisenhower dollar to Mrs. Mamie Eisenhower in the White House. Treasury Secretary John Connally and the Director of the Mint are also present
."
Last edited by SteveP on Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: So, uh...I found this Ike...

Post by SteveP »

SteveP wrote:Nice. Date August 6, 1971. That puts the presentation at around July 31,197, which also was the first time astronauts drove on the moon.
Nothing in the Nixon daily calendar for the last days of July, 1971: http://www.nixonlibrary.gov/virtuallibr ... 201971.pdf,
nor in early August: http://www.nixonlibrary.gov/virtuallibr ... 201971.pdf

Edit: Bad sluthing on my part. A re-read of July 27 in the Nixon Daily calendar has the presentation list plain as day. The event was between 11:03 and 12:03:
"The President and former First Lady Mamie
Eisenhower received
silver proof coins of the Eisenhower silver dollar in
ceremonies with: John B. Connally, Secretary of the Treasury Mary Brooks, Director of the Mint Members of the press, in/out
"
Last edited by SteveP on Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: So, uh...I found this Ike...

Post by 1872Hokie »

I looked at his calendar of events too hoping to find something more, but nothing.

I wonder if anyone in the late Mr. Ullman's family might remember (or still infact have) a mysterious Brown Box Ike that would have been given to him by Nixon?
Last edited by 1872Hokie on Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: So, uh...I found this Ike...

Post by 19Lyds »

Well, since folks are digging up early IKE Presentations, here's one that was given to Amon Carter by John Connolly from supposedly the First Day of Striking.

Image

My composite

Image
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